Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Dr. Strangelove]

As to working class whites who came out to vote for the first time in decades in rural Ohio, PA, Michigan, etc. I cannot see those voters remaining loyal to Trump no matter what legislation he passes. If he softens on trade...seems to fail on immigration...if they don't see their lives in Steubenville, OH or Saginaw, MI or Wilkes-Barre, PA improving, they are no sure bet to show up at the polls again in 2020...or even 2018.

[froot loops]

The ideas on a Obamacare replacement may have helped him get elected because it had no proposals attached to it, it certainly won't get him re-elected if the ideas are related to that disaster Paul Ryan tried to jam through.

I disagree on the Clinton ran on personality and Trump ran on ideas. Clinton had all sorts of ideas and policy proposals and could explain all of them. Trump had the big ideas but none of them were actionable ideas. He couldn't explain anything, vapid is the correct word for him. Unfortunately in Presidential elections, big vapid ideas generally win the argument. The less wonkish the better, but that doesn't help you governing or legislating. He couldn't explain anything that was in Trumpcare. Da Geezer knows more about it than Trump.

Clinton had no personality in her campaign. But who cares, it's over he won't be running against Hillary Clinton.

[iam416]

As to working class whites who came out to vote for the first time in decades in rural Ohio, PA, Michigan, etc. I cannot see those voters remaining loyal to Trump no matter what legislation he passes.

Well, right -- those voters aren't his "base" though. I mean if you're asking how long his base will back him, I go back to my answer above.

If you're asking whether swing voters will turn on him for moving to the center, then I go back to my answer above -- well, depends on the economy! -- as you say:

if they don't see their lives in Steubenville, OH or Saginaw, MI or Wilkes-Barre, PA improving, they are no sure bet to show up at the polls again in 2020...or even 2018.

The flip side of that is if things are improving I think they're pretty much a sure bet to show up.

[entropy]

As Trump adopts more and more of Hillary Clinton's policies, will his base leave him?

no.. because political identity is more important than the candidates. Both parties prove this almost daily.

[entropy]

another question talent.. is do they trust the Dem's anymore?

[iam416]

another question talent.. is do they trust the Dem's anymore?

Depends on which D message gets through. As I think the Ds are effectively progressives going forward, I think it's a harder sell.

The other question, entropy, is do the Ds even care? I tend to think they should, but far be it from to second guess the brilliant political strategy of that party.

[entropy]

I don't think they care because the party is a progressive party. Middle class working D's are beneath them..

Sadly, I don't think the R's really talk to them either. They're really a group without a political home.

[Wild Hoss]

The notion that Clinton ran on personality is preposterous. She literally has none.

If we didn't know already, despite all the bleating about wanting candidates who speak issues, presidential elections are a popularity contest. What plays into that popularity are political momentum (Result of political environmental factors) and personal candidate charisma. The import of each shifts in relation to the other depending on current events, but the end result is that elections are NOT the venue of the Wonk.

[froot loops]

I'm pretty sure increasing health care coverage through the ACA, helping the country out of the recession from 2008, saving the car industry would be fine points of evidence that the out of touch Democrats care.

But one of the things they didn't care about was that their black president was a secret Muslim born in Kenya and that made all the difference in the world. Trump knew this.

[Dr. Strangelove]

The notion that Clinton ran on personality is preposterous. She literally has none.

If we didn't know already, despite all the bleating about wanting candidates who speak issues, presidential elections are a popularity contest. What plays into that popularity are political momentum (Result of political environmental factors) and personal candidate charisma. The import of each shifts in relation to the other depending on current events, but the end result is that elections are NOT the venue of the Wonk.

I think the argument is that she was running AGAINST Trump's personality/character and not so much promoting herself. I largely agree with that. I think there's been studies showing the overwhelming majority of Clinton's campaign ads were about Trump's character flaws. Somewhere in the 70-80% of all commercials range.

Not that commercials have a great deal of substance either way, but the same study showed that Trump's ads tended to address specific issues significantly more.

[iam416]

It's true that anyone who doesn't support Obama is a racist. It's nice that Froot is always here to remind of us how racist Rs are.

[iam416]

I think the argument is that she was running AGAINST Trump's personality/character and not so much promoting herself. I largely agree with that. I think there's been studies showing the overwhelming majority of Clinton's campaign ads were about Trump's character flaws. Somewhere in the 70-80% of all commercials range.

Yeah, that much is true. It was, more or less, a referendum on Trump's fitness to serve.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Yeah, that much is true. It was, more or less, a referendum on Trump's fitness to serve.

And to be fair, Trump actually lost that referendum. Heh. But the way in which we count votes...hers were not as well distributed. And thus: failure!

[froot loops]

It's weird that talent takes a swing at my posts but he let's this meatball fly on right past.

Where Are Trump's Tax Returns ... ??

During a recent Trump rally stop, a heckler from the audience hollered, "Hey Where is Trump, hiding his tax returns?"
The speaker politely responded, "he found a very secure place that I'm certain they won't be found."
The insistent heckler, then shouted, "And just where is that"?
The speaker smiled and said, "They are underneath Obama's college records, his passport application, his immigration status as a student, his funding sources to pay for college, his college records, and his Selective Service registration.
"What's your next question?"

[froot loops]

By the way, they didn't all have to be racist, I drive around Macomb county a lot and I have seen numerous Trump that Bitch bumper stickers. A small minority I suppose.