Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[entropy]

hanni.. fundamentally, I'm ok with "handouts" to get people back on their feet or to help those without choice (children). I'm also sympathetic to those who lose their retirement due to pension cuts when during their prime earning years, pensions were the standard form of savings. I don't have sympathy for career welfare or generational dependence. And I'm not a fan of propping up an industry or market through subsidies/tax breaks/handouts.

All that said, I still believe what I wrote above on how people react to handouts.

[hack]

..but I'm of the opinion the right and the left really don't want freedom of thought or speech, they want to win. They want freedom of their thought and limits on conflicting beliefs. So, you may disagree.

Out of the mouths of Huskerz, but that's it right there. Entropy is nailing this discussion.

[hack]

Geezer I cannot help you With reentry into this atmosphere, but gimme a ring when you're back.

[Da Geezer]

can you be more specific?

[Da Geezer]

An interesting statement by Rep. Nunes:

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-03-22/nunes-says-trump-team-communications-caught-in-u-s-surveillance

Of course, the only crime found so far in all of these investigations had been the unmasking of US citizens inadvertently caught in domestic surveillance of foreign targets. NSA doesn't need a FISA warrant because of 12333.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Unmasking isn't a crime if there's a legitimate reason for it. I think you're more referring to any info that was leaked.

Nunes also made clear he's seen nothing thus far that was illegal and that this is quite different than the claim that "Obama wiretapped me"

[Da Geezer]

..but I'm of the opinion the right and the left really don't want freedom of thought or speech, they want to win. They want freedom of their thought and limits on conflicting beliefs. So, you may disagree.

I agree with much of what you say in this post and in others. Specifically, what "limits on conflicting beliefs" has the right tried to impose? Speech codes, jailing climate deniers, and safe spaces are creations of the left. It is only the left that seeks to use government to impose thought control on their opposition.

[Da Geezer]

Unmasking isn't a crime if there's a legitimate reason for it. I think you're more referring to any info that was leaked.

No. American citizens are not to be identified in domestic surveillance, and particularly in written transcripts of such surveillance. That is a crime; I believe a felony. The leaking is also a crime, but that is not what I am talking about here.

When you say "...when there is a legitimate purpose for it." you are speaking of a warrant. That is what a warrant actually is: a Judge authorizing what might ordinarily be illegal based on probable cause. As yet there is/was no actual warrant issued. Absent a warrant (which is to say the incidental recording of), the citizen must be masked.

Everything now is speculation regarding Trump's stupid claim that Obama had him surveilled. What is decidedly not speculation is that Gen. Flynn was identified and was an American caught on domestic surveillance. Publishing (attaching) his name to what he said is a crime. The leaking of the transcript is also a crime.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Read this thread from Luke Russert on how unusual it is that Nunes rushed to the White House to brief Trump on information he just received before even speaking to other committee members

Fair to remember: Nunes was a part of the Trump transition team

[ame]https://twitter.com/LukeRussert/status/844629834802384897[/ame]

[Dr. Strangelove]

Absolutely not true. American citizens are not to be identified in domestic surveillance, and particularly in written transcripts of such surveillance. That is a crime; I believe a felony.

When you say "...when there is a legitimate purpose for it." you are speaking of a warrant. That is what a warrant actually is: a Judge authorizing what might ordinarily be illegal based on probable cause.

Everything now is speculation regarding Trump's stupid claim that Obama had him surveilled. What is decidedly not speculation is that Gen. Flynn was identified and was an American caught on domestic surveillance. Publishing his name was a crime.

Unmasking isn't a crime unless there was a legitimate reason for it. I believe it's implied that they'd receive permission from a judge for it to be legitimate. If I was unclear, sorry.

I'll repeat, Nunes has said he's seen not one shred of illegal activity here.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Also worth remembering, surveillance advocates like Nunes, on BOTH SIDES of the aisle, are only bothered by government snooping when they or an ally gets caught up in it.

https://theintercept.com/2017/02/15/after-michael-flynns-resignation-surveillance-defenders-suddenly-care-about-wiretap-abuse/

[Wild Hoss]

Entropy is nailing this discussion.

That's probably a welcome change for ent, who is used to being on the receiving end of that verb. (Emphasis on probably)

[Dr. Strangelove]

???

[ame]https://twitter.com/kasie/status/844648810123014145[/ame]

[Da Geezer]

heh.

Entropy, here is a good article on Thomas Sowell, and on Scottish history.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-education-of-an-american-sage-1489791759

an excerpt:

How has America changed over Mr. Sowell’s lifetime? “Oh my God,” he responds, “that is truly a depressing subject.” He laments the “huge degeneration” and what he sees as the spread of “the grievance culture to low-income whites—and even to places like Great Britain.”

An idea has taken root “that you’re entitled to certain things, that you don’t necessarily have to earn them,” he says. “There’s a belief that something’s wrong if you don’t have what other people have—that it’s because you’re ‘disadvantaged.’ A teenage dropout mother is told she has a disadvantage. But if you’re going to call the negative consequences of chosen behavior ‘disadvantage,’ the word is corrupt beyond repair and useful only for propaganda purposes.”

[Dr. Strangelove]

[ame]https://twitter.com/kasie/status/844651923802374145[/ame]

So Nunes figuratively sprinted to the White House to tell Trump what an 'anonymous source" had told Nunes. Before telling anyone else on the Committee.

Yep, all's normal here, folks.