Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[hack]

No, what you saw there was a discussion of interracial violence, the justice system, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson that was not a political discussion.

Seriously, either full political correctness or live and let live, which would require just absorbing the inevitable barbs and carrying on. Which is not that hard. Alternatively you could have an anxiety attack like OP does whenever I joke about him being gay. (And yes, I'm aware he's gonna troll me for weeks now. But principles are principles. Mine mandate that if linesman is going to offend me he can have some of the same right back. And that goes only for linesman because he's the one that made the rules.)

[-Deborah-]

We just spent 2 nights at the Little River Indian Casino in Manistee as part of a study group we belong to (didn't gamble). What an eye opener! Hundreds of addicts glued to slot machines, completely oblivious to their surroundings. A typical gambler was a 60 something white haired overweight cigarette smoker sitting for hours repeatedly punching in the enter button as the screens rolled.

Most of the employees are locals and non-Indians and this casino supports the local Ottawa tribe numbering a little over 4000. But at what cost?

Our surprising takeaway was how this casino has destroyed the local economy of Manistee. Our tour guide used to own a bar there and said the casino wrecked his business and has sucked out most of the jobs from the local food and entertainment establishments. The city itself looked quite dead although I'm not sure how bad it really is because we were not there on a week-end.

Interesting observations. I used to live in Ludington and would visit the poker room at the casino once in a while. My opinion was that Manistee got me to come there when I normally wouldn't have because they had that casino. I guess I can imagine the city losing some of the residents' business but they really don't make up for it by attracting folks from outside of the area?? That surprises me. I also wonder how much of the poor economy in general over the past several years is also a factor that may not be considered by the local business owner you spoke with...

[lineygoblue]

Wow .. that's the best gasoline on the fire I've tossed in here in quite some time ..

Let me take care of the easy one first...

The plan is that the new policy, where everything is run according to liney's whim, will see an explosion of new participants.

You can disappear from this forum right now, sir .. and not a soul would miss you. And I think I said in the original statement a month ago, that I didn't care if we gained new people, returnees, or whatever. I was placed in this position to do a job. I'm doing it the way I see fit. You can stay, you can leave. I don't care. If you piss me off, you will eject yourself. Very simple. You had no problem tossing me from the Megasite when you felt I stepped out of line, and you never consulted a soul over that. You made an arbitrary decision. So, in this place, you will have to deal with MY arbitrary decisions. Live with it or leave. I'm fine either way.

Hack, I have not contacted you "several" times concerning your language or posting content. I sent YOU and OP one (1) e-mail, where I very diplomatically and quietly (that means I didn't want to involve the rest of the forum in the discussion) tried to get the two of you to agree to tone it down. Both of you chose to make that public. Rob F and I had spoken on the phone about this, before I sent you that e-mail. He and I agreed that QUIETLY and OFF THE FORUM was the appropriate way to handle the situation. It was YOUR CHOICE to make it public in the forum, not mine. And yes.. if you still have that e-mail from me, you may post it here for everyone to see. I'm not ashamed of anything I said in it. I still have a copy, and so does Rob.

And to sum up the rest of the comments ... let me say this about political content here.

This forum WILL NOT become a Political Discussion forum. Period. We're not going to have a "Fox News vs MSNBC" clown-fest over political topics. We TRIED IN THE PAST to have a political thread, and it DID NOT WORK. We ALL AGREED AT THAT TIME. to DROP political discussions, because we WANT TO REMAIN FRIENDS, and we DON'T want politics/opinions to harm those relationships. That policy will NOT change, as long as I have anything to do with this forum. There IS a Politics Forum that Deborah has set up, and its on the same menu that gets you in here. Go there, and have at it. Its not happening here.

And once again, I hereby offer my resignation from all forum activities, if a majority of the Michigan fans here decide that you want me gone. If I stay, I'm moving on as stated previously. If I'm gone, I'm completely gone, and will not return.

And DennisT ... turn on your sarcasm detector ... or buy some new batteries ...

[Dr. Strangelove]

RE: The Megasite

To enlighten people who don't know what liney is talking about...

Liney used to be a moderator at the Megasite back at worldcrossing back when it actually had some traffic. I don't remember who started it, may have been Dave Rickart, but liney began deleting posts like crazy any time anyone said anything derogatory about Michigan.

Keep in mind this was not a Michigan forum; it was a College Football forum that welcomed fans of all schools.

Liney was asked several times to stop deleting posts he didn't like. He refused. So I stripped him of his moderator privileges. He was not banned from the forum or kicked out. He may have voluntarily quit posting there after that.

It was not arbitrary nor was it done on a whim. I believe in forum free speech and liney was actively destroying that.

[lineygoblue]

Wonderful, Strangelove.

Now that we have that settled, we can move on.

And.. ironically .. it was not long after Strangelove tossed me, that the Megasite started dying out. By time Worldcrossing shut down, the "megasite" was down to about 3-5 regular contributors. At its most popular, I'd say there were probably 40 or more contributors.

So, you did good Strangelove.

and in spite of my sins at the Megasite, you returned to the Michigan Forum as a regular contributor, and when it and W/C closed.. you followed us here. Maybe I'm not so bad after all??

[hack]

You sent one on July 2 and one on July 15. As far as I'm concerned being a moderator isn't a licence to impose your own personal sensibilities on the group, so IMO these matters are best discussed out in the open, so some degree of agreement can be achieved. You chose to handle it through private messages, and because it's not my decision to make, I've respected that by not sharing the whole thing with the group.

If it's your intent to keep politics out of the forum, then at the very least start with yourself. Lead by example.

If it's your intent to speak for the group on DSL, don't speak for me. I'd miss him. For every four utterly stupid things he posts, there's a gem too. I'm fascinated by his essential mix of Buckeye and common sense, as that seems a rarity. He should be closely monitored over the years in the name of progress.

Lastly, in the past during your twice-annual ``I'll be gone if most of you want me gone'' episodes, I've supported you in continuing as monitor and respectfully asked you to maybe seek a little bit of compromise more often then you tend to. At this point however I think you should be done as a moderator. It's puzzling why you interpret this simple job in the way you do, and it's causing problems. I respect linesman the poster about Michigan football, and I respect the time and effort you've put in, if not the result.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Liney, I've got no interest in seeing you driven off or for you to quit posting. I just wish you would quit slipping into the role of forum dictator now and again.

Appreciate the flattery, hack

[whodean]

Miscellaneous/OT

[WM Wolverine]

I see nothing useful in talking about politics & religion here and imo we could add race too. Nothing good comes from discussing these topics. Liney has run an excellent forum here and kept things very civil though he's not without mistake.

Coming from someone who has run a handful of fantasy/simulation baseball leagues (long ago) and been involved in many others (football and baseball); it's really tough to keep a good group of people together as you need to keep issues from escalating. People keep grudges, small issues become large ones which hurts membership. Liney is trying to be proactive in managing issues that emerge that could hurt our small community here.

[CGVT]

I see nothing useful in talking about politics & religion here and imo we could add race too. Nothing good comes from discussing these topics. Liney has run an excellent forum here and kept things very civil though he's not without mistake.

The problem comes when a snide remark is made (such as Liney's post about Jackson and Sharpton) to those that agree with that take, all is well, but those that disagree are always compelled to make their comment in disagreement and a political "discussion" ensues.

Overall, the Lions Forum has been pretty good at curtailing those types of things, mostly through self moderation and cries of "Take it to the politics forum", but every now and then Deb has had to crack the whip and put us back in line

The lesson here may be that if the moderators would rather not have to moderate, then maybe they should not be the offenders?

[Rob F]

He should be closely monitored over the years in the name of progress.

I have to agree with the "He should be closely monitored" part, the rest, however?

[WM Wolverine]

I entirely agree CGVT in the instance above, I didn't like his remark either but I feel were making mountains out of molehills.

[Dr. Strangelove]

BTW, for what It's worth, the third suspect in the shooting is now being described as "white"...OOPS!!

[Rob F]

The problem comes when a snide remark is made (such as Liney's post about Jackson and Sharpton) to those that agree with that take, all is well, but those that disagree are always compelled to make their comment in disagreement and a political "discussion" ensues.

Overall, the Lions Forum has been pretty good at curtailing those types of things, mostly through self moderation and cries of "Take it to the politics forum", but every now and then Deb has had to crack the whip and put us back in line

The lesson here may be that if the moderators would rather not have to moderate, then maybe they should not be the offenders?

CGVT---how, exactly, does Deb "crack the whip" as you posted? I only occasionally lurk over at the Lions Forum and seldom post there, so I honestly don't have a good feel for how she runs the place; obviously she must do a good job, seeing how large the forum is and how happy the place usually seems to be :-)

[CGVT]

Rob, I've been posting in a Lions Forum in one iteration or another that Deb has moderated for about 17 years. I imagine that there are more, but other than obvious spammers, I can only think of one poster that has been banned. There are quite a few that didn't conform and were chased off by the members of the forum, though. It really is very much a self policing entity. When those of us that have been around have been out of line (and Lord knows I have been guilty) Deb sends a "quit being a dumbass" email. We may argue with her a bit, but we usually see the light. There have been posts and series of posts that have been moved to the politics forum, but really that is kind of rare because most posters get it. The Lions forum is really loosely moderated. There are discussions and exchanges there that make what is posted between Hack and OP look tame in comparison, and sometimes it can get downright nasty, but as a rule, politics are off limits. Those of us that have been around know better that to take a jab at a politician, even when it is only a joke, because we know where it will go.