Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[hack]

Are you suggesting that, on balance, there are market democracies to the right of the US?

[iam416]

I'm not sure what countries make your list for "market democracies', nor do I have a particularly strong sense of what you mean by "right".

The United States is, IMO, more liberal than numerous countries and more socially progressive than others for reasons stated above.

Your opinion obviously differs. I'm comfortable with that. It's not really a subject we're ever going to come close to agreeing on. For example, French's assumptions re left institutions have some purchase with me. That wasn't why I posted the article, though -- I had zero intention of raising an issue that I know sparks unbridgeable disagreement. Rather, I thought the response framework -- which I see in the left today in response to DJT -- was more interesting.

[hack]

With me too. Yes, the liberal crowd is an annoying clique running all over the playground making shrill sounds. It doesn't rise to that level of a problem, and keeping revolutionary fervor alive long after the fight is won is basic playbook stuff of which this is a garden-variety example IMO, but the underlying point is valid to an extent. It's just being way oversold in order to keep the flame burning.

I'll have a look at what you're saying. The basic metrics are obvious -- size of welfare state, tax rate, regulartory burden, etc. Some of that other stuff is simply not really a matter of left/right outside of the US. But I should think about it and be a little more systematic, which will take a bit of time later today or tomorrow.

[AlabamAlum]

More chess talk. Less econ.

Geesh

[Wild Hoss]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKIGystgThc"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKIGystgThc[/ame]

Not chess, but this is probably more to your eclectic Scotch/Wiz-loving tastes than the current economic inanity.

[Da Geezer]

First, I have no clue what a market democracy is. Hack, I'd point you to the Index of Economic Freedom from the Heritage Foundation (I can't cut and paste, computer on the fritz).

Estonia is a case and point. I am a personal friend of Mart Laar, who became the leader of Estonia in 1992, I believe. When Estonia got its freedom from the USSR, Mart was in the position of starting from scratch with an economy that was virtually non-productive, except for vodka. Mart had no experience in economics and decided to read Milton Friedman's book Free to Choose. He consciously structured the economy in a capitalist way, free-market, property rights, individual freedom. You can read about the transformation and the explosive economic growth in Estonia following their independence.

Of course, there is Hong Kong, Singapore, and others, but Estonia is a case of going from socialism to capitalism basically overnight.

I don't know if you figure this is more "right" than the US, but if you are dealing with test cases, Estonia is the example. Note there are 16 countries that are "more free" than the US. I'd argue each of them, using your metrics like tax rate, welfare, regulation, are more to the right of the US in terms of economic freedom and market capitalism.

[iam416]

Yes, the liberal crowd is an annoying clique running all over the playground making shrill sounds.

To be clear, I don't fault them for their initial reaction to DJT. I know many people who are very much enraged. The key for them, IMO, is to, as French says, be angry without sin.

So, this is remarkably timely, but I was talking with folks who run campaigns and such, including active ones. And they think that the way to win, at least as of today, is to run against your opponent's supporters. That was unheard of probably a decade ago. But now, man -- I think it actually has currency. I that's supported, in my mind, when I watch CNN go into some shitball bar in Bumbfuck, Alabama, ignore the dude going on and on about chess, ignore the dude going on and on about fucking Lane Kiffin and put the dude on that is racist OR when I watch Tucker Carlson give some looney tunes nutjob "RESISTANCE!!!" person 5-8 minutes of airtime. It's about delegitimizing and dismissing competing ideas in as perfunctory a fashion as possible. If THESE GUYS are mad then it must be a good idea!

Fascinating stuff from a politics perspective and disheartening from a human perspective.

37. E4-E3 F2-E3!

[AlabamAlum]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKIGystgThc

Not chess, but this is probably more to your eclectic Scotch/Wiz-loving tastes than the current economic inanity.

Thank you. And namaste!

[iam416]

Wait, Geezer knows Mart Laar??? THE MART LAAR!!!???!!! Holy fucking hell. MART LAAR!

:-)

[AlabamAlum]

Estonia isn't even a real place. It's a made up name like Xanadu or Deutschland.

[iam416]

No, it's real. They're in the Sun Belt. Got asswailed by Arky State on Tuesday night last year. I think they're the Vandals.

[Wild Hoss]

"Planet Nebraska" by Kevin Williamson. A good read for you remaining free-marketers. There are a couple lines in there that will resonate with hack too.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...nger-reduction

[iam416]

I was going to post that for the corn people, but I thought 2 NR links was too much. Insofar as it highlights the staggering food production of the US, it's pretty good.

[Wild Hoss]

Well...that was almost nice of you I guess. Heh.

Traditional politics continue to swirl. Just yesterday there was a discussion in the office spurred by heretofore Republican free-marketers, recently-turned protectionists. The contents of this article did not come up, but should have as it applies equally to these parts.

But alas, I have long departed the ways of arguing such things with Kansans. Suffering the effects of their own wisdom is the only means for true change, and it has finally begun with a GOP-backed revolt against Gov Brokeback's Laffler tax policies.

[Da Geezer]

Just got back from the computer shop. Here is the link to the index of Economic Freedom:

http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

From Wikipedia:

In barely two years, from 1992 to 1994, the radical reforming Estonian government of Mart Laar was the first in Europe to introduce the flat tax, privatized most national industry in transparent public tenders, abolished tariffs and subsidies, stabilized the economy, balanced the budget, and perhaps most crucially, restored the prewar kroon and pegged it to the stable deutsche mark.