Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[hack]

EVERYBODY focuses on identity politics. Now and again you get an exceptional person like JFK, but, apart from that, people pay lip service to uniting the country whilst also exploiting its divisions. I'd just like to see the Ds do a much better job of it. If it were up to me, I'd find politicians that want to run on a cities first campain, and start savaging rural America. Only 20% of Americans live rural, so that leaves me with 80% of the population to work with. Trump has shown me the way -- finger their enemy, tell them how awesome they are, and tell them you'll fix it all. Starting with the electoral college and the Senate, the tools by which rural people conspire to deny urban people their rights.

[Whitley]

Tillerson is shaking up the State Department. He is reassigning the majority of his staff to other roles. These are top level officials that are meant to advise him.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/17/politics/tillerson-state-department-shakeup/index.html

The purge is starting.

[iam416]

In your view, what are the social justice issues you talk about talent? Is it gay rights for marriage, trying to help the poor with things like the ACA. I know you don't Black Lives Matter, but if you read the Justice department report on Ferguson, it was pretty damning. Is it telling these constituencies to sit down and shut up because you are offending the silent majority?

Froot, there's a way to run on "social justice" issues and there's a way not to, IMO. I think Hoss and Entropy get at it a bit. You cited Ferguson. I think that's a GREAT example. You have the activist element -- the loudest voices -- screaming about MURDER!!! I mean, EXECUTION STYLE MURDER -- HANDS UP, DON'T SHOOT! And then, that story turns to total shit. Total shit. And the whole narrative takes an absolute shellacking with the Middle Middle (I'm going with this instead of any sort of silent minority, plurality, majority, whatever). And then, after the story takes a total shellacking, the DOJ report comes out. And what do people remember about Ferguson?

I also think it pretty bad business to talk about privilege. It's absolutely, 100% alienating. There's a way to talk honestly about the need for sensible police reforms w/o condemning white folks.

I think it pretty awful business to tell people that live in shit towns to move. And I hear that A LOT. The jobs ain't coming back so move you poverty-ridden dumbasses. I ask people who say that to imagine telling a poor single black mother stuck in West Baltimore to just move.

At bottom poor people are poor people. There's plenty that unite poor blacks, latinos, whites, etc. Calling one segment privileged and another segment victims is not only a political failure, it's repulsively wrong. As I've said, it's why I respect Bernie Sanders so much. He got it. Poor is poor.

It may be that the loudest voices don't care about poor white folks. It may that the Ds actually have a great agenda and message to unite, but it gets drowned out by the activists who make it seem that the Ds are concerned with just about everyone else other that poor white folks. They need, IMO, people like Tim Ryan and, shit -- I've going to kill myself saying this -- Bernie Sanders talking economic issues without casting blame on anyone other than Wall Steet or the hated 1%.

So, I mean, those are my thoughts. They're not original and they're probably not right.

[hack]

Those are good thoughts. No quarrel. I hope you survive Bernie, because IMO that's exactly what needs to happen -- point the finger at the 1% and get out the pitchforks. Every other problem is easier to fix if we do that first.

That said, an issue with this:

I think it pretty awful business to tell people that live in shit towns to move. And I hear that A LOT. The jobs ain't coming back so move you poverty-ridden dumbasses. I ask people who say that to imagine telling a poor single black mother stuck in West Baltimore to just move.


That's human history though. People go to where the jobs are, and always have. Save for some Americans right now. I agree the answer isn't to tell them to move. And we don't want that. We don't want urban ghettos and rural wastescapes. It's good policy to encourage job creation in rural areas. Plan A. Furthermore it would do no good. Few are gonna say ``Well I guess I'm a historical anomaly and should stop that and do what most humans do when in my position''. And I agree that many of those people can't afford it, and that creates despair and anger and votes for Trump.

But it's something to just keep in mind. We have some very historic levels of entitlement here. We have some completely crazy people, and they aren't on the fringes or a tiny group, but also it's not their fault.

[SeattleLionsFan]

I largely agree with you on the social justice warriors. I find myself eye rolling a lot. And I'm in Seattle, so I eye roll a LOT.

I think that white privilege is undeniable though. Poor is poor but it is easier to be poor and white than poor and black. You are less likely to go to jail, and more likely to be able to get out of poverty due to a number of factors.

I think the current opioid epidemic in the country is a good example. When crack ravaged the inner cities, the addicts were weak and needed to be punished. Anyone caught dealing was the worst of the worst.

Poor white folks in Appalachia get hooked on opioids, and the tall immediately reins to helping them. (Which is the proper response). But why police intervention in black criminality and medical intervention in white criminality. It doesn't make anyone a racist to recognize it is easier to be white than black in America.

Notice I did not say that white folks have it easy, or that black folks cannot make it. It's just that it's a little easier being white.

[SeattleLionsFan]

I also find the poor white folks need help rhetoric nowadays. When it was poor black folks needing help, it was welfare queens all day.

With that said, when did any D say we don't care about poor white folks? I think they did try to tell them the truth, the job ain't coming back. That's caring enough to be honest, instead of pandering. I will also say that I knew a lot or middle class union white folks and a lot of poor nonunion white folks. Maybe unions have some role in improving wages?

[hack]

South Africa is a very interesting comparison. Not exact, but in both places you have majorities that feel abused by minorities and that their time has come. In both cases there's something of a justification for it (a whole lot more of one in the case of South Africans, actually).

But the truth is that, apart from the scars of apartheid, ordinary South Africans don't have it so bad. Their slums are the nicest slums in Africa. I thought the cabbie was fucking with me when he swore we were in Soweto. 90% of Africans would trade places with South Africans in a second. Africans of all types come to South Africa to do the shittiest jobs.

[iam416]

That's human history though. People go to where the jobs are, and always have.

Hey, I completely agree. My own view is MOVE! makes the most sense. I don't limit it to folks in South Point, Ohio, though. Same goes for someone stuck in East Cleveland. And I say it makes the most sense b/c it's within the individual's power and control. I'm a huge, huge fan of economic development initiatives for urban and rural America -- for f'n poor America. But that's not the quick solution.

I think that white privilege is undeniable though. Poor is poor but it is easier to be poor and white than poor and black. You are less likely to go to jail, and more likely to be able to get out of poverty due to a number of factors.

So, we're talking politics. Whether it is undeniable or not, using the word "privilege" with someone living in South Bloomingville, Ohio is, IMO, the absolute worst part of lefty politics. I mean, I think it's catastrophically bad.

As an aside, I find the evolving nomenclature really interesting. It used to be "Affirmative Action" -- the connotation being that AAs have suffered a history of prejudice and deserve some sort of finger on the scale. Now, its not the injustice against AAs, but rather the privilege of all white folks. The finger should be on the scale because you didn't earn what you got (and c'mon, that's what privilege connotes to the Middle Middle). I'm not sure why the switch was made. I'm sure it came from academia, but I'm not learned enough on the topic. But, the catchphrases, I think, are fascinating.

One thought that I had is that Affirmative Action isn't inclusive enough. It's not just enough to treat AAs preferentially in view of other folks - whites, ASIANS, latinos, etc. -- there's still all this other racism out there - often even hidden - that must be combated with even more progressive policies.

Whatever the reason, it's not going away and, IMO, it is such an article of faith amongst the social justice progressives that they can't explain important racial issues w/o using it. And I think that's political death.

[CGVT]

Whatever the reason, it's not going away and, IMO, it is such an article of faith amongst the social justice progressives that they can't explain important racial issues w/o using it. And I think that's political death.

I agree. It is a big part of why Trump got elected. It was the perfect storm of Hillary hate, and scared white folks. For the Dems, the Black Lives Matter movement couldn't have come at a worse time.

[iam416]

With that said, when did any D say we don't care about poor white folks?

I think my point on this is that it's the perception of the Middle Middle:

It may be that the loudest voices don't care about poor white folks. It may that the Ds actually have a great agenda and message to unite, but it gets drowned out by the activists who make it seem that the Ds are concerned with just about everyone else other that poor white folks. They need, IMO, people like Tim Ryan and, shit -- I've going to kill myself saying this -- Bernie Sanders talking economic issues without casting blame on anyone other than Wall Steet or the hated 1%.

I can think of a lot of issues that I have seen more reporting on CNN than the heroin epidemic. For example, NC and bathrooms. I would bet my last dollar that the Ds, to a person, care a shit-ton more about jobs for everyone, including poor white folks or helping victims of drug abuse, including white folks, than they do about doing away with biological distinctions b/t men and women. HOWEVER, that issue attracted, IMO, a disproportionate amount of coverage b/c loud voices cared.

So, I mean -- part of this is ironically comparable to the poor saps stuck in Shitburg, West Virginia where the jobs ain't coming back. I want the Ds to be the Bill Clinton Ds again. I can even make my peace w/ Obamacare and maybe even come to support it. But those Ds aren't ever coming back. So this is mostly just me bemoaning the loss of my party, a loss made doubly awful because the Rs simultaneously turned into Populist hot shit.

[Da Geezer]

...If it were up to me, I'd find politicians that want to run on a cities first campain, and start savaging rural America. Only 20% of Americans live rural, so that leaves me with 80% of the population to work with. Trump has shown me the way -- finger their enemy, tell them how awesome they are, and tell them you'll fix it all. Starting with the electoral college and the Senate, the tools by which rural people conspire to deny urban people their rights.

So the constitution is now a conspiracy to deny urban people their rights?

[Dr. Strangelove]

Enemies of das Volk!!

[ame]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/832708293516632065[/ame]

[Da Geezer]

Talent, I posted an article from NR called "The Feminist Economy" a little while ago. I think you are on to something when you ask, "Why don't these unemployed guys in Shitville WV move to where the jobs are?" I mean, if those folks move, a lot of the problems are on the way to being solved.

From the article:
In Men without Work, he alerts us to a new “invisible national crisis.” This is the flight of some 10 million American men in their prime ages (between 25 and 54) from the work force, and indeed from all the commitments and responsibilities of civilized society. He documents an “immense army” of rootless “idlers,” tending toward obesity, popping pills (mainly prescription painkillers, but also, in alarming numbers, harder drugs), immersed in TV for an average of 21.7 hours a week and video games for 6.7 hours, and stickily keyboarding on an oily surf of terabytes of porn, all while their baby-boom elders retire, often on disability, and, as of this August, 337,000 manufacturing jobs go unfilled.

Read more at: https://www.nationalreview.com/magaz...n-without-work

I'm not sure whether I totally agree with this point about feminism, but some of the statistics are remarkable. In particular, that so many manufacturing jobs go unfilled, and that a lower percentage of men 25-54 are working than in 1933 at the height of the Depression. The analysis applies to the poor, and displaced, not to black, brown or white. Provocative.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Hmmmmmm

[ame]https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/832726071938162688[/ame]

On another note, the first segment with the panel on Special Report was one of the best in a while. Main topic: How little Congress has accomplished thus far in the year vs the Dem Congress in 2009 and how Trump's lack of leadership and distractions is hurting them.

[hack]

So the constitution is now a conspiracy to deny urban people their rights?

Like I said, Trump has shown the path to victory.