Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[entropy]

that wasn't my question froot... just seeing where we agree/disagree.. (and I'm not for mass deportation)

Do you believe in illegal immigration?


Also.. On legal immigration.. Do you feel the US should allow more immigrants, the same or less into the country? should the US limit immigrants from areas that are hostile to the US at that time? Should certain skills be preferred over others? How about skilled immigrants vs non skilled?

[AlabamAlum]

Forget immigration. I would just be happy if people would learn that an on-ramp to the interestate is where you accelerate to interstate speeds and merge over when clear.

Fix that, Trump, and I will campaign for you in 3 years.

[iam416]

talent..

it would appear the DNC is doubling down on the pushing the rust belt to the republican party. Did you see the comments by the DNC chair?

I haven't. Is Ellison the new chair?

Froot should answer the question directly on whether or not he favors immigration laws. I've said it before, and I'll say it again -- that gets to the nub of the issue. If you're in favor of unlimited immigration, then your position is clear (and defensible). If you're not, however, it's pretty f'n tough to say folks are being unreasonable when they merely want immigration laws enforced.

Froot should, IMO, just embrace the unfettered immigration position, rather than saying, "yeah, I'm in favor of restricting immigration, but I'm also not in favor of enforcing those restrictions if the net effect on the economy is negative."

[iam416]

When you call for tight restrictions on immigration from "third world shitholes"

Seems to me that "third world shitholes" are where the majority of immigrants come from. It's not like the Irish or Canadians or French or a citizens of other democracies not quite as advances the US are storming the gates. People leave bad situations. Hence, you know, third world shitholes. If you're going to restrict immigration it's going to disproportionately affect folks from those places.

I'm also not willing to treat all countries as identical when it comes to immigration. You can, if you wish.

[entropy]

I think there is a third option actually... admit we've done a poor job. Give those illegals without felonies a path for citizenship without deportation and clamp down going forward. Get the agreement from communities this is a reasonable compromise and move forward.

Those in favor of unlimited immigration wouldn't agree and those who feel the law is the law wouldn't either.. but I suspect the majority would find the compromise agreeable, especially those illegals here today and would support it.

but we have to have the ability to enforce the laws going forward and invest in the enforcement. Else, the immigration laws will be nothing more than the NCAA

[entropy]

talent..

I think large sections of America that used to be democratic will be republican after reading her comments.

[iam416]

Oh. Her. She's just a candidate. I mean, she's part of the problem the Ds have, but she won't be the chair. It's gonna be Ellison, I assume.

TBH, I haven't followed that closely. Either way, they're going progressive big time.

[Wild Hoss]

I think there is a third option actually... admit we've done a poor job. Give those illegals without felonies a path for citizenship without deportation and clamp down going forward. Get the agreement from communities this is a reasonable compromise and move forward.

Those in favor of unlimited immigration wouldn't agree and those who feel the law is the law wouldn't either.. but I suspect the majority would find the compromise agreeable, especially those illegals here today and would support it.

but we have to have the ability to enforce the laws going forward and invest in the enforcement. Else, the immigration laws will be nothing more than the NCAA

...or just embrace reality: the fact that we really want and need a cheap labor force. Then create a legal state of being where workers are not subject to full rights and minimum-wage protections, but have some, and do need to be vetted, documented and tracked. Indentured workers, whatever.

[Hannibal]

Many many arguments made about Hispanic immigration by nativists today are carbon copies of those made by people in the early 20th century that said we need to keep out Jews, Italians, Greeks, Russians, because none of these groups respected freedom/liberty/etc.

LMAO at comparing the situation today to the situation 120 years ago. 120 years ago we had no welfare state and barely a federal income tax. There was no expectation that the government was going to provide you with health care and a secure retirement. There was no Great Society. It was just capitalism. You were on your own. From a both a cultural and an economic standpoint, the United States was closer to other Judeo-Christian countries of the time than we are today with the countries that provide us with most of our immigrants today. Even with those considerations, immigration was still more tightly controlled during the periods of heavy immigration and immigrants were encouraged to assimilate. Today we have no Ellis Island (but if we did it would be racist) and we preach multiculturalism instead of assimilation. And even despite these heavier controls and much heavier pressure to assimilate, the country instituted tight immigration quotas after World War I. The strain on the country caused by heavy immigration was recognized. There was essentially a moratorium on immigration that lasted about 30 years.

tl:dr -- history doesn't support your case

A better analogy to our immigration situation today and where we are headed would be the current Middle East or the Austro-Hungarian Empire c 1914.

[entropy]

hoss.. that will never be agreed to by the D's..

[Hannibal]

in that earlier immigration debate you were suggesting that Sweden was majority Arab..

Nope

[Wild Hoss]

hoss.. that will never be agreed to by the D's..

Or the Rs.

But maybe by enough of each, if it was broached honestly and openly.

[entropy]

Or the Rs.

But maybe it by enough of each, if it was broached honestly and openly.

LOL
LOL
LOL


oh, wait,...you were serious about the honestly and openly comment..

[entropy]

I don't see the ACLU or many politicians supporting a class of people that is one step removed from slavery.

[entropy]

btw.. I'm not disagreeing with your point that Americans want that cheap labor. A lot of people hire them illegals for that reason.