Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Hannibal]

Meanwhile, Trump is receiving praise from Bernie Sanders and every Union rep with a pulse.

Heh. That's not exactly a good thing.

[froot loops]

There's plenty of room for debate there if you guys are willing to participate in it. Feel free at any time to stop with the :-xHITLERFACISMRACISM:-x stuff and try and make some rational arguments about how America's Bush and Obama era immigration policy actually benefits Americans like me.

Me, me, me

[hack]

There's no point in discussing things based on value judgements, and no point in calling anyone a racist. I'm not in the heads of you, Trump or anyone else and don't know your true feelings. I do know that there's been a jump in racist activity, and that people familiar with fascists draw parallels that can be judged intelligently. My own personal opinion is that the immigration debate is a proxy for debating the composition of the electorate, rather than about any legitimate grievances about having people we perceive as foreign in our communities. It's certainly not about jobs -- manufacturing is at an all-time high. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OUTMS.

But as for debate, I know what happens -- you say something, I seek facts (the CRA and Swedish immigration are two examples that come to mind immediately) and you then say nothing for a while.

[Dr. Strangelove]

When you call for tight restrictions on immigration from "third world shitholes" (Ireland, Russia, Romania, etc. all being 3rd world shitholes once upon a time too) because those sort of people are a danger to the 'essential chracteristics' of America, then it's fair to question if bigotry or racism is playing a role in that perception.

Many many arguments made about Hispanic immigration by nativists today are carbon copies of those made by people in the early 20th century that said we need to keep out Jews, Italians, Greeks, Russians, because none of these groups respected freedom/liberty/etc.

[entropy]

Are we talking immigration or illegal immigration?

[hack]

One of my favorite things ever said to me about this was by an Egyptian lawyer in Dearborn circa 2010. I went to interview him on civil-rights cases he was litigating, and he said ``Americans are decent people, and, in the long run, it will all be fine. Every immigrant group goes through a hazing period though, and it's our turn.''

[entropy]

speaking of being considerate to immigrants.. or people with accents..

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/01/24/chelsea-handler-says-melania-trump-barely-speaks-english-despite-first-lady-speaking-six-languages.html

[entropy]

not at all for this...

http://www.omaha.com/news/nation/trump-to-give-green-light-to-dakota-access-keystone-xl/article_ce916b46-e246-11e6-a9c1-bf0f6a7967d4.html

[entropy]

talent..

it would appear the DNC is doubling down on the pushing the rust belt to the republican party. Did you see the comments by the DNC chair?

[entropy]

He needs to go. I'm glad to see members of his own party asking for his resignation.

[Hannibal]

Hack -- I have not seen a single person opposed to Trump's immigration policy that has even tried to put forth a rational argument that this policy will be a net negative to American citizens. You and his other opponents only put forth irrational arguments related to RACISMFACISMHITLERDRUMPF, White Guilt, and redisitributive "fairness".

[froot loops]

I've posted before, there is an economic study out there that says if you deport all 11 million you would reduce cumulative GDP 4.7 trillion over 10 years. That would be 2.6 percent. So I have tried, that's a lie or a alternative fact if you will.

In my line of work, it is heavily dependant on legal immigrants. If you cut down on legal immigration, the companies will offshore more jobs to places like India and China, etc...

[entropy]

froot.. we both agree that legal immigration is fine. Do you think illegal immigration is ok?

[hack]

Hannibal you you stick with demonstrably false figures even when shown accurate ones -- in that earlier immigration debate you were suggesting that Sweden was majority Arab. You didn't even stop to think about the plausibility of the claims you were making/repeating. If you haven't seen a study, it's not because they don't exist.

[froot loops]

froot.. we both agree that legal immigration is fine. Do you think illegal immigration is ok?

I think deporting 11 million would wreck the economy. I believe in the status quo, it certainly isn't on my to do list. If you want deportation squads, have at it, I'm not on that side.