U of M Basketball Recruiting Discussion

[The Oracle]

Ok liney.

[lineygoblue]

My apologies for commenting on this thread. Carry on with your vision of M hoops unfettered.

I'm not quite sure why you feel your comments are necessary or called for to begin with.

If you disagree with what us Michigan fans believe about our basketball program, and feel that your basketball program is far superior to ours, why don't you just whistle another chorus of "Carmine Ohio" and be done with it?

[Optimus Prime]

Talent, best for you that Liney never goes red & yellow cards. A couple dozen cleverly posted GIFs will be the least of your worries.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/05/us/uta...ndex.html?c=us

[Deuce]

And since you asked, in the 2013 and 2014 classes, they apparently have no kids in the top 20 (Scout, Rivals) and have 1 or 2 in the top 50 depending on if you look at Scout or Rivals.

I don't know if you're lumping in 2012 or not. I do know that 2012 is the only top 10 class per Scout OR Rivals under Bielein. Only. Also, upon a cursory review (so I could be wrong), GR3 is the only top 20 recruit JB has brought in (again, per Scout or Rivals).

So, your question was: So, they haven't been adding top 20 and top 50 talent?

I guess the answer is, Beilein has recruited 1 top 20 player (per Scout OR Rivals) during his entire tenure at M and has none signed up for 2013 and 2014. Beilein has recruited several top 50 players (per Scout OR Rivals) and has 2 more signed up. As I said, he's bring in talent that will keep M competitve in the B10.

I hope that helps.

Nah, McGary counts as top 20 talent. At least as far as his recruitment goes at the time of his committment. He was #3 at the time, and was being persued by Duke,UNC,Florida amongst others. It appears the services dropped him about 15 spots too many after an average year at Prep school

[hack]

I'm not quite sure why you feel your comments are necessary or called for to begin with.

If you disagree with what us Michigan fans believe about our basketball program, and feel that your basketball program is far superior to ours, why don't you just whistle another chorus of "Carmine Ohio" and be done with it?

Because this is a sports forum. It's for sports fans to comment on sports. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

[iam416]

To carry on with Hack's Lebowski theme, Oracle -- OVER THE LINE! Mark it zero.

Deuce:

Agree re McGary. I also think Walton is underrated. But, top 20 is top 20, right or wrong.

[Da Geezer]

Okafor and Looney are on TV in an all star game (started at 9pm). Both look really good. Zimmerman played in an earlier game and did not look very good. That Rusell kid who is going to Ohio is playing and Talent is right. Game on ESPNU.

[Pasadena Blue]

M's recruiting is nowhere close to being the league of the BBall bluebloods. Despite Talent's derision, I don't think there is reason we can't compete with those schools, but it's not going to happen with Beilein. Beilein's recruiting strength is in identifying future stars early and grabbing them before the bluebloods can swoop in.

I do think Beilein is a superb teacher, and the fact that he turned two 3* into first round NBA picks (including one unanimous POY winner) is impressive. As a teacher and developer of talent, Beilein is as good, if not the best, of anyone in B1G.

[WM Wolverine]

Pretty hilarious you are talent, I was merely saying that if M wants to compete for Final Fours, and NT's against the likes of those schools, M needs to land top talent like Booker, Blueitt, Chatman, McGary, G Robinson, Zimmerman, etc...

I really like where the program is headed under JB and agree with you they are 'clearly' a step below the bluebloods (along with OSU). You could probably put Kansas in that group but I'm not sure if they are with that group going forward, which is all that's important.

[hack]

Beilein's recruiting strength is in identifying future stars early and grabbing them before the bluebloods can swoop in.

I think that with some more success he'll be able to land coveted players without the benefit of a long relationship in which he gets credit for being the first coach to show that kid some love. There is indeed a big difference between putting together an elite squad and keeping the talent level high for a year or two and reloading with a new juggernaut 3 times a decade.

As for who the actual bluebloods are these days, I might be forgetting someone but it's basically Kentucky, Kansas, Duke and UNC.

[iam416]

I think UCLA and Indiana have an argument. The thing, of course, is that you still need a great coach. My personal definition of "blueblood" is a program that, if it gets a good to great coach, will be truly elite. I'm fine with Duke on that list, but I'm still a bit curious as to whether they are Coach K or more -- in some respects, like UCLA.

As an example, I think Thad Matta would win NCs at UK or UNC (the two ultimate bluebloods). I'm not sure about Beilein only because I'm not sure if he would fully utilize recruiting value of the school.

[hack]

Don't see it for Indiana. A lot of that is unfortunately history. They're in the same spot as us save for there's no Final Four to recruit with. They ought to be in a different situation, and given an elite coach and that recruiting base they'll be just fine. But they're not in on the top guys as a rule just cause, as my suggested four is. They're more analagous to you in football -- it's a function of what's in-state. The difference is that Crean has yet to, um, ``fully utilize the recruiting value''.

Indiana isn't there IMO and the proof is that it failed its transition challenge, so to speak. Duke definitely has a transition challenge upcoming and we'll see how that's handled. Surely there's a succession plan in place. I agree that UNC and Kentucky are the two ultimates. Trained monkeys, etc.

[WM Wolverine]

State of Indiana is generally loaded with talent, McGary, Robinson, Zak Irvin all came from Indiana. That helps the Hoosiers even if their coach isn't the caliber of those at M or Ohio. They are also in on 'elite' talent for the '14 class which they expect to land and have recruited quite well of late.

[iam416]

Yeah, I said there wass an argument to made for IU, but I think the disastrous transition has knocked them down a peg (though, I guess they did make a final in that time miraculously enough).

Even North Carolina had transition issues. They were very aggressive in addressing them, but the Guthridge-Doh era wasn't good -- though, again, they did perform well in the tournament (when they made it...heh).

Same with UK. Tubby had them drifting.

[iam416]

I do think that if Crean wins at IU it's proof that they still are a blueblood. I agree with WM in that I don't think he's as good as Matta or JB....or Ryan or Izzo. He's middle of the pack in the B10. And yet, he's going to end up with a program that is as good or better than OSU, M, Wisky and MSU. That's a blueblood -- at least arguably -- he needs to win a national title.