U of M Basketball Recruiting Discussion

[iam416]

And, TBH, it's unfair of me to even compare Matta to Calipari. Calipari is the grand slam hire of all hires for CBB. The Calipari-UK synergy is amazing.

[WM Wolverine]

Ohio has had the luxury of elite in-state talent and has no in-state competition like Michigan State, a top 10 program...

M's basketball facilities were embarrassingly bad, they scared off many of recruits who seemed very interested in M until they visited our facilities and compared them to others. M's b-ball facilities have improved tremendously over the past couple years and with the addition of guys like Glenn Robinson III, Mitch McGary, Trey Burke, etc. its clear those investments are paying off.

[lineygoblue]

And with that, Beilein is walking thru doors that were never open to a Michigan coach before. He just went head to head with Billy Donovan and Coack K for Mitch McGary, and got the kid to come to Michigan.

I don't think that's the end of Beilein's excellent recruiting at Michigan. I think its only the beginning.

And I also believe that MSU is on the down side of its run with Izzo. I believe he's showing signs of burnout, and there is always the threat of him going to the NBA. Plus, the talent pool is drying up in Michigan, due to our population loss. The talent that Izzo used to gather from the Flint and Saginaw areas (Saginaw Valley Conference) is basically dried up. I don't think there's even one D-1 player in the entire conference this year. Didn't used to be that way. There used to be 5-10 every year. So, to get whatever "elite" talent that the state of Michigan has to offer, a college coach has to tap the pipeline in Detroit and surrounding areas, along with the west side of the state in the Grand Rapids area. Detroit has long been Michigan's stronghold. Izzo has never done well in Detroit.

As noted above, the upgrade in Michigan's basketball facilities was long overdue, and has helped catch the eye of highly-targeted recruits. It will continue to benefit Michigan's recruiting. Plus, Beilein is gaining a lot of popularity in AAU circles, where coaches like the man, and they like his style of basketball. HS coaches are looking at Beilein's coaching style, particularly his offense, and installing it at the HS level. Kids love playing in it.

So, I think Beilein's run at Michigan is just getting started. The best is yet to come.

[iam416]

The Bobcats have also pulled good recruits from the Midwest. Conley, Oden, Evan Turner, DeShaun Thomas -- all come to mind. Shannon Scott from Georgia (who Matta took over Burke -- he may end up being wrong on that). LaQuinton Ross from Mississippi. And, I think they'll get Tony Parker -- but we'll see on that.

So, yeah, Buford, Sullinger, Diebler, Cook, Lighty, Lauderdale (heh) all were from Ohio, but he can't win as big as he's won with Ohio kids.

Shit, almost forgot Craft. Even if Matta is wrong about Scott/Burke, his decision to finally offer Craft makes up for it. THough, of course, Craft wasn't an elite talent.

[iam416]

Anyway -- Liney -- I don't have anything against Beilein. Like I said, I think he's a good coach. I'm not quite the believer in his recruiting, yet, but perhaps I'll be wrong.

In any event, M hoops is certainly on the upswing.

[WM Wolverine]

Can't really compare M to Ohio for the reasons I stated above, OSU becoming a top 10 program isn't a surprise given the talent Ohio/Indiana produces and the money Ohio invests in its basketball program.

[lineygoblue]

Can't really compare M to Ohio for the reasons I stated above, OSU becoming a top 10 program isn't a surprise given the talent Ohio/Indiana produces and the money Ohio invests in its basketball program.

And this is why I think the "Izzo factor" is on the downswing at MSU. The Michigan basketball talent pipeline has already dried up. That's where Izzo made his mark, was within Michigan. He was in the right place at the right time when Michigan got whacked with NCAA sanctions, and became "the" man in the state, while Michigan trotted out the feared Brian Ellerbe, and the gentlemanly but somewhat unprepared Tommy Amaker.

Now, with the talent pool gone, Izzo is going to have to recruit nationally, to maintain his "big dog" status in Michigan. That ain't going to happen.

Meanwhile, Beliein has recruited nationally for years. He now has the full effect of a rebuilt and rejuvenated Michigan program behind him.

[hack]

Beilein is a good hire. Certainly better than the garbage M hired before him. One good recruiting class isn't going to make M a "perennial" FF contender, either. And, frankly, the Fab 5 were the exception for M, not the rule. M hoops are ordinary. That has been the rule.

You probably need a history lesson, as that's not really the case. Frankly the Fabs were a sad continuation of normalcy for Michigan -- bring in great big batches of talent yet never manage to win the Big Ten. I remember reading just after the Fabs era a piece on what were, at the time, considered college basketball's eight most storied programs. They included Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, Michigan, Indiana, UCLA and one more that I forget. I remember thinking at the time that Michigan should be considered lucky to be in that group but certainly, among state schools, is the most accomplished in the two major college sports. It's certainly not in that basketball-elite group now, however. MSU should be.

Michigan's lost generation in basketball came because the school decided it would rather fail at basketball than cheat. Michigan is no longer a top program, but your school enjoying a run of success has nothing to do with it. You cheat and are inferior because of that. Once Michigan is back where it once was with regularity you will see what an elite AND clean basketball program looks like.

[The Oracle]

MSU can recruit nationally easily, Izzo just chooses to stay in the Midwest and always has. He's never relied soley on Michigan talent. And the SVC has plenty of big time talent still. MSU's best recruit next year comes from there, another one from Lansing and all from the Midwest. MSU isn't going anywhere anytime soon, unfortunately.

[hodgkal]

Just a small anecdote -- when I attended a Michigan golf outing several years ago RR and JB were there along with other coaches. I inadvertently ended up in a one on one conversation with Beilein and he could have blown me off but he didn't. He was sincere and genuinely interested in what I had to say. He could not have been nicer. Little things like that often tell you a lot.

[The Oracle]

Same story we keep getting regarding JB. Even MSU fans that have come across him are big fans of his. Class.

[Deuce]

And this is why I think the "Izzo factor" is on the downswing at MSU. The Michigan basketball talent pipeline has already dried up. That's where Izzo made his mark, was within Michigan. He was in the right place at the right time when Michigan got whacked with NCAA sanctions, and became "the" man in the state, while Michigan trotted out the feared Brian Ellerbe, and the gentlemanly but somewhat unprepared Tommy Amaker.

Now, with the talent pool gone, Izzo is going to have to recruit nationally, to maintain his "big dog" status in Michigan. That ain't going to happen.

Meanwhile, Beliein has recruited nationally for years. He now has the full effect of a rebuilt and rejuvenated Michigan program behind him.

None of the bolded makes sense to me. The talent pool isn't gone, The Midwest has top recruits to spare even if Michigan itself does not. Even in U of M's glory year this year w/ McGary, MSU is still there with Indiana's Gary Harris, a top 100 Ohio kid, and two top 100 Michigan kids. Izzo does not have to leave the Michigan/Indiana/Ohio area to field his most talented teams probably ever.

Izzo is still bringing elite Ohio kids (Payne), elite Indiana kids (Harris,Dawson) and is in on elite Chicago kids for 2013 (Parker). Indiana and Ohio are so deep in prospects they can field 5 Big Ten tourney quality teams and still let Kentucky and Louisville steal some of the best from the area.
It's that deep year in year out.

[hack]

There was a point in a game last year, I forget which, in which Morgan picked up his typical second foul, came back to the bench frustrated, and Beilein was just the picture of parenthood -- a sympathetic smile, some wise words, a calming effect, and then a teachable moment. It was a great, great, coaching moment.

Oracle are you saying that the talent is like it used to be? Doesn't seem like it to me and it does explain Izzo and MSU.

The other factor is that Izzo doesn't like recruiting and keeps flirting with the NBA. He's going to jump sooner or later. Is there someone on that family tree that can take over? I doubt Crean leaves Indiana, right?

[hack]

Deuce part of the mix is that Izzo did that when Michigan and Indiana weren't in a position to compete. Michigan now is. If Crean gets Indiana back on track that's a huge factor too.

[*JD*]

The Bobcats have also pulled good recruits from the Midwest. Conley, Oden, Evan Turner, DeShaun Thomas -- all come to mind. .

Bobcats?