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  • Originally posted by WingsFan View Post


    That's perfectly legal, he is at every Michigan game. If he had a buddy or two (or hired) that he sent to opponents games to figure out signs and tell him that is breaking the rules. Michigan has not been proven of any wrongdoing at this point.

    The gutless NCAA is investigating, and announced it to make it look like there already has been rules broken. They want other fans and some writers like Yahoo to scream Harbaugh is a cheater . (See Politics) They did not do this to RichRod for stretchgate, and announce when... you know like facts are proven.

    No matter what happens now, even if nothing is found. MSU/OSU will say he was investigated two times in 2023
    There's something to be said about outlaws. Especially, if rebuked. They gain sympathy if not outright adulation.

    Doesn't matter. If it's true we'll see them get demolished in the PS and OSU games. If not, then all was much ado .....

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    • Comment


      • Originally posted by JRB View Post
        However, that doesn't mean there isn't something wrong. I don't know precisely what's happened, but I'm willing to offer this guess. Michigan football was broken at the end of the 2020 season. We all saw it. Many of us(myself included) called for a head coaching change, as we thought things couldn't improve under the current leadership. Jim Harbaugh had to hear that call. A coach that hadn't failed anywhere in his life was hearing the calls for his job from his fellow alumni, and he felt he had to make changes to save the program. I suspect-- and I think the available evidence and current allegations support this inference-- that Harbaugh decided to push against any constraints on his program as hard as he could. The old expression is, "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't trying." My guess is, Harbaugh decided it was worth it to try.
        Or, conversely, a guy that has had success at other levels is given the keys to the program of his Alma Mater.. and yet somehow, his biggest rivals keep embarrassing him. Was ohio REALLY that much better in 2018 and 2019? Doubtful. Was MSU really, well, good? Doubtful, again. Likewise, Cooper's ohio teams routinely got beaten by lesser Moeller and Carr teams. Gee, did Michigan have some inside info on what was going on in Columbus? One wonders.

        Maybe this wasn't so much of Harbaugh finding a new edge (IOW: cheating). Maybe it was a matter of him catching on.

        Sorry, but being a choirboy only goes so far. Nobody buys your records. You can't be a rock star.

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        • Right - That's not only hurting Jim, but his own student-athletes. Not a chance! Let's not create controversy from within unless there is anything concrete to suggest this theory could be true.



          It is not a well-kept secret Ohio knew Michigan plays in 18/19 and Wisconsin in 20 (accorded to Isaiah Hole).

          2016 was a big setback, people forget Michigan was robbed of the playoffs on more than one terrible call in Columbus and still was one call away. Like Finebuam said the NCAA is just piling on Jim Harbaugh now.

          Robert Griffin III @RGIII Then every team should be investigated. This is called scouting.​

          Whatever happens, Harbaugh hasn't many years left in coaching. He needs to go to the NFL and not need to put up with this BS.

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          • If JRB is concerned about a revelation that Harbaugh authorized 'cheating' in order to close the competitive gaps between Michigan and OSU and MSU, then I think he can relax. That's not what Harbaugh does. He's never been accused of anything like this at any other place he's been, and I'm willing to believe 100% that he didn't do it at Michigan.

            I think what DID happen after the 2020 season, was that JOHN Harbaugh grabbed Jim by the shirt collar, and told him he needed to change some things. First, he needed to fire that joke of a DC, Don Brown, and put a real DC in place. Hence, here comes McDonald, to get the ship righted, and then a year later, here comes Minter, who was McDonald's right hand man. This is a big piece of the puzzle that is responsible for the changes at Michigan. I'd guess that John and Jim sat down and discussed personnel changes among all the remaining assistant coaching positions. I believe that this, more than any 'cheating' is responsible for the improvements in Michigan football.

            I refuse to believe that Harbaugh made a conscious decision to cheat in order to improve the team. He's not built that way. Not long ago, Harbaugh and his wife made a public proclamation that they are pro-life. They also stated that they were Christians. Not a popular thing to say in 2023. Its likely fanned the flames against him by those who already didn't like him.

            Finally, I stand on what I said earlier. Produce proof that Michgian sent operatives, paid or otherwise, to opponents games and/or facilities, and scouted future opponents. Show video or pictures. When Belichick and the Patriots were accused of this a couple years ago, the NFL showed Patriot personnel actually taking video shots of opponents sidelines. For me, that's the kind of evidence that I need to see. If the NCAA or the accusers can't produce that, then they should shut the F up.
            "The stockings were hung by the chimney with care, .. I'd worn them for weeks, and they needed the air"

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            • It is not a well-kept secret Ohio knew Michigan plays in 18/19 and Wisconsin in 20 (accorded to Isaiah Hole).
              This may be my favorite line ever typed on this forum. 5 stars. Would definitely, definitely read again.
              Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
              Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

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              • OSU players were quoted in those years, saying (about Michigan) "We knew every play they were running". They had similar comments about Don Brown's defenses.

                HOW did they know? The world may never know. OSU is pretty good at keeping its secrets, secret.
                "The stockings were hung by the chimney with care, .. I'd worn them for weeks, and they needed the air"

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                • Provide the quotes. You’re big on evidence (when it comes to M) — provide the quotes.

                  Don Brown ran one defense.
                  Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
                  Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

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                  • I'm not going back to pre-2020 years to provide you with quotes from OSU players. Do your own homework to prove me wrong. I remember reading that they said they knew what plays Michigan was running as soon as they came out of the huddle, and they laughed at the defense (s)? that Brown was running. So give me your best 'gotcha' and be happy.

                    With OSU fans, the end always justifies the means.

                    The formula for OSU fans is this:

                    Did the tactic (s) provide wins over Michigan?

                    a. Yes = then whatever it took was worth it.

                    b. No = time for heads to roll.

                    Ohioans are taught this from birth.

                    "The stockings were hung by the chimney with care, .. I'd worn them for weeks, and they needed the air"

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                    • LMAO. From where’s the proof to “nah, I don’t need any proof.”
                      Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
                      Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

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                      • Yep. You play by your rules, and I'll play by mine. Its always been that way in here.
                        "The stockings were hung by the chimney with care, .. I'd worn them for weeks, and they needed the air"

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                        • I didn’t find any quotes. You challenged me. I responded. You’re wrong.
                          Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
                          Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

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                          • You win. I'm wrong.

                            But I'm not.

                            "The stockings were hung by the chimney with care, .. I'd worn them for weeks, and they needed the air"

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                            • Meanwhile, Harbaugh poses for a quick pic with the guy who spied on Minnesota for him ...

                              391661273_871121071049331_3915544070279370634_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=TegyvXDtZYcAX9m5IT6&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=00_AfDYqpaY_B2dAKOUWMIKrMKxqsQHYRucByKdUYBiBDlGsw&oe=653A0
                              "The stockings were hung by the chimney with care, .. I'd worn them for weeks, and they needed the air"

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                              • 391701661_344180858291993_4636360748907804786_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=3VLPrXo-og8AX-V8n-m&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&oh=00_AfDSZvsWstBlnTMATB5QOco5SBX67U-8zvVOzYpGeDY_Qg&oe=6539D53A.jpg
                                "The stockings were hung by the chimney with care, .. I'd worn them for weeks, and they needed the air"

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