Michigan Football - 2025 Season.

[Tom W]

Never underestimate the value of spying and other sorts of espionage and clandestine activities. We've won World Wars because of them.

[lineygoblue]

Its like the Japanese crying foul because the US had access to their top secret communications system. Its how we won the battle of Midway, and sank 4 of their carriers.

[iam416]

The whistleblower almost had to be someone on the staff or who was on the staff. Other teams could speculate -- and some apparently had a pretty damn good idea -- but the only way it gets to this point is if a person with knowledge is talking.

[iam416]

Its like the Japanese crying foul because the US had access to their top secret communications system. Its how we won the battle of Midway, and sank 4 of their carriers.

Or the Dodgers and Yankees crying foul when the Astros beat them!

[Mike]

The whistleblower almost had to be someone on the staff or who was on the staff. Other teams could speculate -- and some apparently had a pretty damn good idea -- but the only way it gets to this point is if a person with knowledge is talking.

Correct. All signs point to Dudek. The million dollar question is if Scalion is simply really good at figuring out teams' signs or was he using electronic surveillance. There is no rule against stealing signs. The only potential violation is whether there was in-person scouting off campus by an individual from UM. And even then there isn't any specific punishment outlined in the by-laws. It just says it's prohibited.

[JRB]

I hate what I'm about to say. I have long wanted to see Michigan football teams play to the level that Michigan has attained these last three seasons. They play the way I enjoy seeing the game played. That's a credit to them, and to the members of the coaching staff. There's an awful lot right with these people, and I want to start there.

However, that doesn't mean there isn't something wrong. I don't know precisely what's happened, but I'm willing to offer this guess. Michigan football was broken at the end of the 2020 season. We all saw it. Many of us(myself included) called for a head coaching change, as we thought things couldn't improve under the current leadership. Jim Harbaugh had to hear that call. A coach that hadn't failed anywhere in his life was hearing the calls for his job from his fellow alumni, and he felt he had to make changes to save the program. I suspect-- and I think the available evidence and current allegations support this inference-- that Harbaugh decided to push against any constraints on his program as hard as he could. The old expression is, "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't trying." My guess is, Harbaugh decided it was worth it to try.

I don't want this to be true. I didn't want it to be true when Rich Rodriguez and his staff came into a tough situation and decided to bend the rules to gain whatever advantage they could find for a roster unsuited to their style of play. In retrospect, given how that ultimately played out, Michigan might have been better served cutting ties with Rodriguez immediately. You cut corners to find a way to win, and you will eventually have a mess to clean up. My guess is, at the end of this, whatever this Michigan team wins on the field, Jim Harbaugh is going to leave Michigan with a major mess.

[iam416]

Correct. All signs point to Dudek. The million dollar question is if Scalion is simply really good at figuring out teams' signs or was he using electronic surveillance. There is no rule against stealing signs. The only potential violation is whether there was in-person scouting off campus by an individual from UM. And even then there isn't any specific punishment outlined in the by-laws. It just says it's prohibited.

Correct. So this really is analogous to the Astros -- sign-stealing in MLB is allowed -- IF it's done in a certain way. If it's done in a way that's against the rules, then it's a problem. I mean, not a big enough problem to strip them of anything, but a problem.

I don't know what your KGB dude did. However, my guess -- and this is purely my guess -- is that there's evidence he visited future opponent venues. And if I really had to guess, I'd say he filmed signs live and paired them up with the TV run-back. I mean, I don't think this was ordinary -- it certainly seems like numerous other B10 schools noticed -- so, either he's exceptional at gameday sign-thievery or he was running his Jason Bourne shit.

But, that's a pure fucking guess. And, aside from the glorious opportunities for sass, when allegations like this come out I'm very much a wait to see all the cards kinda guy. So, we'll see.

[Mike]

Same. At least there's something interesting to talk about.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Harbaugh is now the subject of two NCAA investigations: (1) paying the tab for a recruit's hamburger and (2) sign stealing. The sign stealing allegations have twice appeared as headlines in both the MSM front pages and all over the sports rags and web sites. From what I've read about both, enough has been said about the hamburger foul. The sign stealing thing has ramped up over this week. It's already been stated here that scouting an opponent is not illegal. It is my understanding that in the process of said scouting by eyeball has to be enhanced with technical devices and even that does not appear to be clearly defined by the NCAA.

So, what's up? Talent opines that after 6y of M football suck under JH, he decides to embark on processes that press the limits of the NCAA rules that apply in these two cases. Further Talent remarks, that it was to gain an unfair advantage. Suddenly, and after this alleged "corner cutting" he beats osu at home and then again away, wins B2B B10 Championships and plays in two consecutive CFPs. The known facts, at this point, aren't sufficient to support that applicable NCAA rules were violated - and to talent's credit, he acknowledges that.

To me, the whole thing wreaks of childish behavior involving a football coach or coaches that lodged complaints with the NCAA that they were unlawfully spied on - the NCAA received a complaint and now had to act on it. Clearly, because of that alleged spying, the complainers got paved by Michigan in one or more of the football games they played M over the last 2.6 seasons. How then did M get paved by UGA and TCU if they allegedly gained an unfair advantage over those two teams by stealing signals? Makes no sense.

There are all kinds of valid questions about the rules, how they are enforced and what actually took place. I have no idea what the outcome of this will be but the allegations parallel the many instances of faux outrage over something done or someone's conduct that regardless of innocence of the accused in the matter, is tarred, feathered and run out of town, reputation tarnished. This story should quickly disappear in the news cycle and I'll be glad when it does. Its a distraction albeit an intended one by the coach(es) that got fairly beat up becasue M's coaching, game planning and in game adjustments was for that opponent better and then ran crying to Mama making excuses.

[iam416]

Actually, I haven't opined that here -- it was JRB. Not me. I have sassed that in a different thread, but you're taking issue with JRB. Not me.

[iam416]

How then did M get paved by UGA and TCU if they allegedly gained an unfair advantage over those two teams by stealing signals? Makes no sense.

They weren't on the schedule. So M didn't send their KGB crew to film the signs at the game (which is "illegal") and match it up with the TV. That's certainly an easy explanation if you buy into what they were doing.

Like I said, I'll wait and see. And sass on all other threads except this one.

[Mike]

Listen up, ya’ll! It’s SABOTAGE.

[WingsFan]

if Scalion is simply really good at figuring out teams' signs or was he using electronic surveillance. There is no rule against stealing signs.

That's perfectly legal, he is at every Michigan game. If he had a buddy or two (or hired) that he sent to opponents games to figure out signs and tell him that is breaking the rules. Michigan has not been proven of any wrongdoing at this point.

The gutless NCAA is investigating, and announced it to make it look like there already has been rules broken. They want other fans and some writers like Yahoo to scream Harbaugh is a cheater . (See Politics) They did not do this to RichRod for stretchgate, and announce when... you know like facts are proven.

No matter what happens now, even if nothing is found. MSU/OSU will say he was investigated two times in 2023

[WingsFan]

And Warde suspends Scallon just now...with pay. Lol ... look look NCAA we're cooperating! Anything we can do to help we will!

[Da Geezer]

Listen up, ya’ll! It’s SABOTAGE.

Right, Mike

Harbaugh is in the process of finalizing a new contract that will pay him what he is worth. Obviously, Warde Manuel started the rumor in order to save money.