Michigan 29, Indian 7 - Post Game Thread

[Tom W]

Harbaugh has a tendency, when he's fielded a good team and he has one now, to pull back v. obviously weaker opponents so as not to embarrass them. This is a great opportunity for Harbaugh to bring it. Something he's not demonstrated the willingness or capacity to do since he became HC.

Maybe he needs to look at last year's IU game to see which team was the one that got embarrassed.

[Mike]

Actually, beating up on bad teams is a Harbaugh hallmark. It’s winning rock fights against good teams that he sucks at.

[froot loops]

You guys have a quarterback now and a brand new big weapon. The Wolverines are a better team than they have been in the Harbaugh era. The key is separating the past and what you think the future can be with Harbaugh.

[Mike]

The 2016 team was still his best. This year's squad is probably on par with the 2018-19 teams.

[froot loops]

Yeah maybe the 2016 team was better, it all depends on how they finish. I think the key is, I think the offense is better. The Spartans were content to let them throw for a lot of yards but Harbaugh fucked that plan up by unleashing Andrew Anthony. That dude looks like a level better than a lot of the receivers Michigan has had over the years.

[Jeff Buchanan]

You guys have a quarterback now and a brand new big weapon. The Wolverines are a better team than they have been in the Harbaugh era. The key is separating the past and what you think the future can be with Harbaugh.

This team is better than it was after the NfW game and even in losing to MSU is still a much improved team after that loss. M Fans should recognize that and Brian at mgo does when he says:

This is a team with a more-or-less first year starting quarterback that could bring back literally everyone on the roster except for Andrew Vastardis and Brad Hawkins. Even when you account for likely NFL departures like Aidan Hutchinson and Dax Hill, this team looks more like a team building towards a peak roster year than something for the here and now. Anthony is breaking out on offense; Ojabo is breaking out on defense.

I think most of us here and most M fans in general are a bit tired of, "wait until next year." M was on it's own 36, first down ,leading 33-30 with something like 5 minutes left in the game when ..... shit, fuck, goddamn........ M fans rightfully ask, why does it too frequently seem in the Harbuagh era that Michigan football is on the cusp of run for a championship the unimaginable happens, as in, well, that was a simple hand-off on a play that McCarthy and Corum have probably run 50X and they fuck it up. FUMBLE, MSU recovers and scores the go ahead and winning TD.

[Mike]

This team is better than it was after the NfW game and even in losing to MSU is still a much improved team after that loss. M Fans should recognize that and Brian at mgo does when he says:

This is a team with a more-or-less first year starting quarterback that could bring back literally everyone on the roster except for Andrew Vastardis and Brad Hawkins. Even when you account for likely NFL departures like Aidan Hutchinson and Dax Hill, this team looks more like a team building towards a peak roster year than something for the here and now. Anthony is breaking out on offense; Ojabo is breaking out on defense.

I think most of us here and most M fans in general are a bit tired of, "wait until next year." M was on it's own 36, first down ,leading 33-30 with something like 5 minutes left in the game when ..... shit, fuck, goddamn........ M fans rightfully ask, why does it too frequently seem in the Harbuagh era that Michigan football is on the cusp of run for a championship the unimaginable happens, as in, well, that was a simple hand-off on a play that McCarthy and Corum have probably run 50X and they fuck it up. FUMBLE, MSU recovers and scores the go ahead and winning TD.

The 2nd paragraph negates the first. I don't know how Brian can even muster the motivation to hammer out such drivel at this point.

In his 7th season, Jim Harbaugh is 9-16 against, MSU, OSU, PSU, and Wiscy. So everyone you need to go through to win the conference. If you throw out OSU he STILL has a losing record against that group. And the wins are almost exclusively when those teams are having a down year or their QB is hurt. I read today that Jim Harbaugh has an outright losing record at Michigan against P5 teams with a winning record. That's stunning. Forget about ranked teams, top 10 teams, on the road.... No. He simply cannot beat good teams. There's 7-8 built in wins for major programs like Michigan. That only leaves roughly 4, maybe 5, games a year that actually matter. I don't need to watch us pound Northern Illinois and Northwestern to feel good about the program. Those only serve as entertainment not unlike going to a movie. I only really care about the big games and we NEVER win them EVER. I don't care if we go 10-2 and lose to both MSU and OSU. What in the hell is the point? There isn't one.

[froot loops]

Two things on that.

1. I get the tired of waiting until next year. But that doesn't mean it isn't the correct course of action.
2. The cusp of a championship is probably overstating it. You saw two flawed teams with great records having a great game where there were mistakes on each side. Neither side is quite there yet. I will not be shocked if the Spartans go down to Purdue and lose. Both sides margin of error is not that great to be a championship team in my estimation.

[Tom W]

Sparty losing to an inferior opponent the week after winning against Michigan is definitely one of their trademarks.- and one of Purdue's is beating someone they have no business competing with in November.

[froot loops]

Since Dantonio, they haven't had those kind of losses. Hopefully that continues under Tucker, this is the first test for him.

[Obi-Jon]

This Saturday, M blows at 42-0 halftime lead to lose to IU 45-42.

[lineygoblue]

This Saturday, M blows at 42-0 halftime lead to lose to IU 45-42.

You've seen this act before. Michigan has been a horrible 2nd half team this year, overall.

2021, .. another wasted season.

[Jeff Buchanan]

You saw two flawed teams with great records having a great game where there were mistakes on each side. Neither side is quite there yet. I will not be shocked if the Spartans go down to Purdue and lose. Both sides margin of error is not that great to be a championship team in my estimation.

Given the relative competence of the BTE, there were to start the 2021 season and still are 3 teams likely to win the BTE conference. I agree with you that the margin of error between M and MSU in Saturday's game and going forward with regard to winning the BTE division is "not that great." M's is smaller than MSU's following the loss at EL but probably equal to PSU's and slightly less than OSU's. Frankly, and as it pertains to winning the division, all three of these teams have little room for error.

There's a poster at mgo that does these weekly stat reviews. One of them has probabilities for all the BT teams of "winning out." I'll be interested in seeing that just as, of course, a frame of reference. Right now and based on what I've seen and combining that with fancy stats, I'd say that OSU has the best probability of winning out and then, M follows OSU (has to win all games remaining on schedule), PSU follows M (loses to M) and MSU follows PSU (loses to OSU).

Putting the horse before cart, if all 3 teams end up with one loss each, the vagaries of the BT Conference tie breaker rules end up getting to #5. It's weird and involves records v. non-divisional opponents. As of today's standings, OSU would get the nod having played MN and Purdue which is better than M playing NW and Wisconsin (although close) or MSU playing Purdue and NW (not close). All three teams will have also played Nebraska. That could change, of course and not entirely confident I have the tie breaker rules correct.

[lineygoblue]

OSU is right on schedule to finish as conference champion. As usual.

Nobody on their remaining schedule is a threat to that outcome.

[Jeff Buchanan]

The 2nd paragraph negates the first. I don't know how Brian can even muster the motivation to hammer out such drivel at this point.

My take of what Brian said was that in isolation, M will have a very good team in 2022. He wasn't commenting on the 2021 team. He already said in preceding comments, that M played well enough to win implying they were and continue to be a strong contender for the divisional crown if things fall into place. I don't think "the 2nd paragraph negates the 1st." Different contexts.

In his 7th season, Jim Harbaugh is 9-16 against, MSU, OSU, PSU, and Wiscy. So everyone you need to go through to win the conference. If you throw out OSU he STILL has a losing record against that group. And the wins are almost exclusively when those teams are having a down year or their QB is hurt. I read today that Jim Harbaugh has an outright losing record at Michigan against P5 teams with a winning record. That's stunning. Forget about ranked teams, top 10 teams, on the road.... No. He simply cannot beat good teams. There's 7-8 built in wins for major programs like Michigan. That only leaves roughly 4, maybe 5, games a year that actually matter. I don't need to watch us pound Northern Illinois and Northwestern to feel good about the program. Those only serve as entertainment not unlike going to a movie. I only really care about the big games and we NEVER win them EVER. I don't care if we go 10-2 and lose to both MSU and OSU. What in the hell is the point? There isn't one.

Look, yours is the standard complaint. I don't need to remind you, that especially in CFB, past results don't predict future outcomes. You may be entirely right but you could just as easily be entirely wrong with respect to the outcome for M football in 2021. You're already ceding a loss to PSU and a loss to OSU before the games are played.