Michigan State 27, Michigan 24 - Nail in the Coffin of M football

[lineygoblue]

There is a guy available right now that works on the Fox pregame show. He would turn your program into the mythical juggernaut you guys always claim Michigan used to be by year 3.

If you're talking about Urban Meyer, he has emphatically stated that he would never coach Michigan now. Especially after coaching at OSU. If Urbs coaches again, I believe it will be a PAC 12 team. I think the likelihood of him coaching again diminishes with every year he's at Fox. He seems to like his job there.

I can't think of anyone else on that Fox clown-fest that would be any better than Harbaugh, and that includes Woodson. He's never coached a day in his life.

[lineygoblue]

Also regarding the juice box and apples analogy for HARBAUGH, I don't get that at all. If anything his prickly persona rubs too many people the wrong way and the whole program has taken on some mercenary aspect for the players.

The analogy has to do with the easy acceptance of losses, and perpetuating a soft program. They're satisfied with their participation trophies and a "good effort". Nobody on State Street gets pissed off when they lose anymore. Had these guys given that kind of effort to Schembechler, he would have bussed them over to the practice facility after the game and made them practice for 2 hours in full pads. I know, can't do that nowadays, but he'd be pissed, and he'd do something about it. And if HE didn't do something about it, Canham would have.

Now? Losses are acceptable. Pat them on the head. Pass out the juice boxes and apples, mommy. They tried. Oh well. Here's your participation trophy.

A once great football program has become a horse$#it program. And nothing we say here is going to change that.

[froot loops]

Yeah those words mean absolutely nothing, the great philosopher Theodore Dibiase had a great retort to that, "Every man has his price." That dude is waiting for Michigan to open up the checkbook and make an impassioned appeal to his ego. It is the obvious next move for him. That would be real big boy shit Michigan claims to be about.

You guys would be instantly better with a coach who is just better than average on game day. It has been 15 years since you had that. Harbaugh just got depantsed by a coach who's hiring was widely panned.

[froot loops]

The analogy has to do with the easy acceptance of losses, and perpetuating a soft program. They're satisfied with their participation trophies and a "good effort". Nobody on State Street gets pissed off when they lose anymore. Had these guys given that kind of effort to Schembechler, he would have bussed them over to the practice facility after the game and made them practice for 2 hours in full pads. I know, can't do that nowadays, but he'd be pissed, and he'd do something about it. And if HE didn't do something about it, Canham would have.

Now? Losses are acceptable. Pat them on the head. Pass out the juice boxes and apples, mommy. They tried. Oh well. Here's your participation trophy.

A once great football program has become a horse$#it program. And nothing we say here is going to change that.

Yeah, by all the accounts I've read Harbaugh is a prickly asshole who runs off players and assistants and is rough at practices. A lot of the punitive things you think he should be doing that the great Bo did, Jeem is already doing it. The big difference is nobody down there at State Street is running through a wall for him like they would for Bo.

[Hannibal]

If you can't think of one guy who could turn Michigan into a power, you aren't thinking hard enough. There is a guy available right now that works on the Fox pregame show. He would turn your program into the mythical juggernaut you guys always claim Michigan used to be by year 3.

You might not be getting the HARBAUGH of the Niners or Stanford, but I think that's overblown, he was OK at Stanford but he got a lot of mileage out of some high profile wins. His game management has always been suspect and he didn't bring along a David Shaw, Vic Fangio or Greg Roman to Ann Arbor.

Meyer would never come to Michigan. Every man may have his price but Texas can easily match that price. That's the real barrier there.

I think that Fickell is a very realistic candidate, and he would be a great hire. Great fit, success not far away. It's not a four year rebuilding job either, and I think that helps in attracting a candidate. Fickell is, by far, the best candidate realistic candidate.

The other candidates are a step down from Fickell, but still worth taking a chance on. Jeff Brohm has more signature victories than Harbaugh and I get the impression that his players will run through a wall for him. Mark Stoops looks to me like Carr in his prime -- great defenses, shit offenses, but he recruits Ohio. I'd take a PJ Fleck even though I think that he's a clown. At least he has energy. Brent Venables is a popular name on mgoblog and it might be time to go after him. His results at Clemson have been great and he can recruit. Hugh Freeze has that special "recruiting" advantage that we need and he did a good job as Ole Miss coach. I'm impressed by the job that Mario Cristobal has done at Oregon. I don't know if there's a fit there though. I think that Bill O'Brien might be available. It might be time for Pat Fitzgerald to make the jump. Maybe Mike Gundy is ready to move. Maybe we can poach the guy from Kansas Sate -- he had an excellent run at NDSU and he appears to have KSU on the right track.

Lots of candidates. Many of them not perfect but Harbaugh sucks dick. He has sucked dick since his 19-3 start (29-16 since then).

[Hannibal]

Don Brown is rightly taking a lot of shit, but there are some other bum assistants that aren't producing. After 2017. Harbaugh very puzzlingly fired his S&C coordinator and whoever we've gotten since then is a huge downgrade. I remember thinking that was a crazy move at the time as the S&C looked very successful in 2015-2017 (we didn't look weaker or less athletic than our opponents). Early returns on Shaun Nua suggest that he should be coaching Division II -- D line development has come to a screeching halt. Especially DTs. Chris Partridge looks to be a painful loss too. McGrone and Ross have been busts so far this year.

[Jeff Buchanan]

The deciders at Michigan aren't going to fire Harbaugh, we've been down the list of reasons why. They're sound. He could simply decide to leave and that would be fine with me. I'd also argue the checkbook isn't as open as it was when Harbaugh was hired. The impact of the pandemic has been devastating on CFB revenues and especially revenues for the P5 programs. Crippled re hiring a top coach if Harbaugh leaves would be an appropriate term. Coaches with lucrative contracts aren't going to be lured away with a lesser offer from M, such offer being limited by the realty of empty bank accounts and a Regency reluctant to spend on a football coach when academic staff are getting laid off and planned facility expansion programs are getting shelved.

It's a shit sandwich that makes me sad. Yesterday's game just ended my interest. It's not worth following a program that has for more than a decade been an on-field disappointment. I'll still tear up when I hear "Hail to the Victors ......" but that's ebbing.

It's a lot like the sad feeling I get when the generations following mine denigrate and rip out cultural and historical beliefs that I grew up with. These were and still are important to my identity and I've enjoyed them as an adult into my 70s ........ before the cancel culture took hold. The Michigan culture I enjoyed has been cancelled by a set of unfortunate and often avoidable circumstances over the last decade or more that are now water under the bridge.

As Liney put it up thread, this isn't the Michigan football he knew and along with that view this isn't the Michigan culture that I enjoyed for 1/2 a century. That's gone. For me, yesterday's shit-show, just another in a long list of them, is the final nail in Michigan football's coffin. Bury it.

[iam416]

That makes me sad for you, Buchanan. Though, I see the same thing in my wife. She literally did not care about the loss yesterday. She was like, "oh well." This is the same person who nearly broke various parts of my apartment when they lost to MSU in 2001 and was absolutely gutted in 2016 for days. I think 2018 was the end for her. I can't really imagine what I'd feel like if Ohio State did that to me. Because I still get tears in my eye at the beginning of the game when the band comes on the field and they play the alma mater. It would really suck to feel that connectiveness to so many people you don't even know start to drift away.

As for coaches, I'm not sure they have to be "known." I am sure that M will absolutely follow that course if and when HARBAUGH!!!! moves on. But, Lincoln Reilly and Ryan Day weren't known. And, as everyone will recall, Brian and Froot mocked the hire of Ryan Day as desperate. There are great coaches out there just waiting to be discovered. Now, OU and OSU were lucky because their two respective hires where internal to the program and the HC was still beloved and trusted, so that stamp of approval meant something. But, still.

As for UFM, he's not coaching. Every passing day I grow more confident that is the case. I'll never rule it out, but I don't see it right now. That said, he'd instantly make M a powerhouse because he recruits and is generally relentless in attention to detail. He's a really tough guy to coach under and play for -- he's in the Bo mode in terms of how he coaches players. Not as volcanic, but a more even-keeled, quiet prickery that is perhaps even scarier.

Still, the reality of the M program is that it doesn't recruit well-enough (IMO). I know that everyone is going to point to Sparty -- "we have better players than them!" Correct. But my retort is that you're not overwhelmingly better. You're closer than you should be and you have some glaring undertalented positions. And when you don't out-talent teams like you should, you can get beat. There's zero way that Rutgers has more talent than anyone, but they were close enough to Sparty to win.

That, and of course, QB Development and the attendant offensive scheme issues. And, of course, Don Brown's one trick pony. But, coordinators can be fixed. If you can't recruit well enough then that's never going to change until your HC leaves. That's the hard ceiling on your program. That was, by far and away, my biggest concern with Ryan Day.

[WM Wolverine]

I was pretty pessimistic about this offense till they showed up vs the Gophers. They are young at QB, OL, WR and TE without Eubanks. Going to be a long season.

[Hannibal]

Jeff -- you might be wrong about Harbaugh having permanent job security. The administration might love him, but the fans sure don't. Take a look at the mgoblog forums today and you will see that it is about 90/10 "fire Harbuagh". That place is always the most pro-coach apologist on the web. If the big donors want him gone, I think that it could get done.

Harbaugh apparently isn't under contract for much longer, which means that we don't have to pay him oodles of money to be a professional golfer. This could work out. it's not impossible but it definitely has to be done in time to get a head start on the best coaching candidates (e.g. Fickell)

That, and of course, QB Development and the attendant offensive scheme issues. And, of course, Don Brown's one trick pony. But, coordinators can be fixed. If you can't recruit well enough then that's never going to change until your HC leaves. That's the hard ceiling on your program. That was, by far and away, my biggest concern with Ryan Day.

Harbaugh's problem is not recuited talent, although the attrition from 2017 and the shitty 2018 class certainly showed yesterday. His problem is that he is a shitty coach, and perhaps that he targets soft players with no drive or heart. We have had enough QB busts come through the program to where it's obvious that it's development and scheme that are the problem there. Our 2018 defense had Rashan Gary, Chase WInovich, Devin Bush, David Long, and Lavert Hill and still gave up 62 to OSU. Harbaugh sucks and he's never turning the corner.

[Mike]

I’d take long hard look at Matt Campbell from Iowa State. He’s from Ohio, only 40 years old and is already in his 10th season as a head coach in FBS. Currently makes $3.5M/year. We could double that and still pay him less than Harbaugh makes. His first HC job was Toledo so he’ll have recruiting connections in the state.

I’d fire Harbaugh in the morning. Name Gattis the interim for the rest of the season, then broom everyone after OSU drops 100 on them and go strong for Campbell.

[Hannibal]

Jesus look at this shit. This is what I sound like after I get out of a boring business meeting. How can this zombie clown still be our coach?

[Hannibal]

I’d take long hard look at Matt Campbell from Iowa State. He’s from Ohio, only 40 years old and is already in his 10th season as a head coach in FBS. Currently makes $3.5M/year. We could double that and still pay him less than Harbaugh makes. His first HC job was Toledo so he’ll have recruiting connections in the state.

I’d fire Harbaugh in the morning. Name Gattis the interim for the rest of the season, then broom everyone after OSU drops 100 on them and go strong for Campbell.

I'd have Campbell on the list, but way below Fickell and Brohm.

I completely forgot about Paul Chryst too. Has anyone tried to make a serious run at Chryst and gotten turned down?

[Mike]

I don’t know what the selling point to Chryst would be. He has a better situation at Wisconsin. They pretty much rule the West and don’t have to tangle with OSU every year (in the regular season). A little more money is all Michigan has to offer.

I definitely think someone who can recruit Ohio is a must.

[lineygoblue]

Michigan hasn't recruited at the level that the last few national champions have, but they had enough talent on the field yesterday to beat what MSU threw out there. I don't like losing to OSU, but at least when Schembechler, Moeller and early years Carr lost to them, they knew they had been in a football game, and the loss never sat easy with them. Schembechler and Moeller would grumble about it for a full year, as did the early version of Lloyd Carr.

Winning a NC is hard. I'm not insisting that Michigan win NC's. I just want to see the maximum effort out of the talent we have. If they lay it all on the line, and can honestly say at the end of the day that they left it all on the field, then I have no problem with that. That has not been happening at Michigan.

I'm not sure what Harbaugh's contract situation is with the university. My understanding is that he's not under contract for next season yet. There is no extension of his contract that I know of. Maybe someone can shed some light on that.

I think its a no-brainer that if he's not under contract for next year, that its probably time to cut him loose, and look for a new guy. The program is not making any progress under his tenure.