Michigan Football, the 2020 Abbreviated COVID Season

[AlabamAlum]

[WM Wolverine]

I'm well aware of his Stanford record, I agree Harbaughs Stanford tenure is usually overrated and said as much previously as the Pac12 at the time wasn't good. But he build that program that was winning 11 games/season even if it was a weak Pac12.

[iam416]

I'm sort of with WM and AA -- I think he did a pretty good job at Stanford -- and the fact that his program sustained itself with Shaw is worth mentioning. But, I also think his time at Stanford is overvalued. I also think that AA is correct re competition levels. Hell, if he were at Stanford the past 4 years instead of at M then I'm sure his quirky as fuck style would have finally won a conference title or two. But, there's not pretending that the P12 (either now or when he was coaching in it) is anything like the Big Ten East. He played one elite team when he was at Stanford. He had his best team. They jumped out to a 21-3 lead and managed to still get their doors blown off.

Anywho, the State of M football is this -- STAY. THE. COURSE.

[AlabamAlum]

[Hannibal]

Stanford was beyond bad when he arrived.

[Dr. Strangelove]

The five years prior to Harbaugh being hired, Stanford went 16-40. The team he inherited had scored a grand total of 127 points in 2006. So I think he certainly does deserve credit for making Stanford a relevant program, consistently Top 25 for about a decade. David Shaw generally doesn't get enough credit for maintaining that success, I might argue (although they just had their worst season under him).

[AlabamAlum]

No doubt. Stanford was 14-31 the 4 years before he arrived and Harbaugh improved that to 29-21 in his four years. Good job.

[froot loops]

The key point regarding Harbaugh and Stanford is it generated a ton of earned media. He helped turn around the program but that's a pretty normal beat on a resume when a coach gets hired at a bigger school. The main takeaway from that stint was he stuck it to Pete Carroll in one game and made him say, "What's your deal?" A Michigan Man did that during the ghastly Rich Rodriguez regime. When people say they don't have the same coach as that guy, that is basically what they are referring to. They really aren't referring to play calling mastery.

They might not be getting that guy, he's 10 years older. The gig is a grind and coaches have a shelf life. But it's also a possibility that there was a projection of what they thought he could do. When Saban went to Bama and Meyer went to OSU both fanbases could realistically point to a future national championship because both guys had done that in prior stops.

[iam416]

I dunno. He never won a conference title at Stanford. He's never won a conference title at M. Currently working on 9 straight years of doing that at the CFB level.

[Dr. Strangelove]

People who have won conference titles include luminaries such as Ron Turner, Ty Willingham, and Gene Chizik

I dunno. He ain't in Saban or Meyer's class. But he's no palooka either. If Saban had gone to Stanford in 2007 would he have had an undefeated season and a national championship by year 3? Which seems to be the standard we're to judge Harbaugh by? That's a hard sell for me

[iam416]

You've always been a HARBAUGH!!!! lickspittle. But, for the love of god, have some pride.

[AlabamAlum]

[froot loops]

I don't think the booster pressure is there or will be there at all. Jim brings in a lot of money for Michigan.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I don't think the booster pressure is there or will be there at all. Jim brings in a lot of money for Michigan.

Correct. I believe Harbaugh is a solid coach. He's not demonstrated he is elite by any number of measures. If you want to win championships in the BT - the first step - you have to get though the gauntlet of teams that are very good in the BTE. He's proven he can't do that.

The question of why is a totally different discussion that is mostly speculative although I think most observers agree he is neither a great recruiter nor is his staff great at developing the talent that shows up. Both of those observations have some objective data to back them up so, OK. Will the deciders at M start shopping for some one who can get past the barriers in the BTE to a league championship? Like Froot, I doubt it as long as the football program produces the lion's share of the revenue to fund other sports programs.

Going forward? I think he has a ceiling and has probably reached it. My view is that he's aging out/has his focus on things that I think contribute to the lack of intensity required to recruit ferociously and keep his staff focused and in line - how um and Saban operate with a goal of NCs every season and sustaining success characterize what it takes. Harbaugh doesn't have that.

So, Fruit is right. I applaud his insightfulness. All I would add is that Michigan's deciders at the administrative and BOR level have different institutional priorities than, say, osu ..... and I do not mean that as a slight. Olympic athletes are focused on one goal - winning gold. Everything in their lives revolves around that goal. I think osu has a similar if not a lot broader, more complex set of priorities. M, OTH, operates more like an institution that is satisfied with who and what they are and winning whatever, rarely enters into that. "Leaders and Best" means more than winning football. Doing that, if it happens, is a nice side dish but it's not the main course.

[froot loops]

Saban is like a unicorn, we may never see a coach like him again as far as the ability to sustain intensity. The dude just loves to recruit, by age 68 you would think the rubber chicken dinners and plastic lasagna would get old but not that dude.

Just for reference, Harbaugh is 56. Bo retired at age 60. Bo had health problems but the point is most of these guys don't really have the energy. It is a grind that never ends. I look at Dantonio, that dude still had the passion but he didn't have the same intensity by the end.

The one thing about Harbaugh's current situation is his contract is getting close to the end and I haven't heard much in the way of extending it. It may be nothing but generally the big hitters don't get this close to the end of a contract, there is normally an extension earlier.