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Michigan V. Army, Saturday, September 7th, Noon EDT, FOX/Fox Video

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  • I'm not buying the notion that Harbaugh has "checked out," is less committed to the game, less aggressive, lost his edge or any of the many modifiers describing him that have cropped up either as new ones or as restatements of old ones today.

    The meme that started within hours, even minutes, after the game, that Michigan football, expected to be an zone RO/RPO centric offense, wasn't close to that, sounds like a broken record. Fact: there wasn't any of that in M's offensive game plan after Shea put the ball on the ground the second time. No one has mentioned anything remotely factual to explain that. What we get is Harbaugh has checked out and according to Klatt we "should be worried about Michigan football."

    I listened to the YouTube video of Joe Klatt's comments. He's measured, I'll give you that and he was NOT an early purveyor of the meme I'm speaking off. He's one that, in game, he couldn't understand why M's defense left such large gaps in their defensive front. I think I explained that up thread and what Don Brown put on the field limited Army's Triple Option offense to 3.3 yards per run on 61 attempts and 14 regulation points. In 2018, Army ranked #2, behind GT in Rushing offense with 4.93 yards/rush. So, Klatt can STFU about that. Brown and his D are fine.

    My take is that it is nutz to try to speculate on Jim Harbaugh's mental state. I don't think that is the problem but in typical human fashion, we find ourselves trying to assign a reason for yesterday's shit show and somehow, around here, that explanation rises to the top. I'm firmly rejecting the speculative BS that asserts Harbaugh is not his former self. Well, of course he isn't. SDSU, Stanford and the 49er's were collectively decades ago. He's older and probably a lot wiser. I think it has been pretty well established that he was a very good coach then and there is no reason that he is still not a very good coach - and forget the hair splitting going on here about very good versus elite.

    Fact: In 2019, Michigan ranks 130th out of 130 FBS teams for fumbles lost at 5. In 2018, Michigan ranked along with nFw, LSU, and Mississippi St at #1 with 3 fumbles lost. You tell me what M's problem is on offense through 2 games. It sure as fuck has nothing to do with Harbaugh's mental state. It's pretty simple actually: M is turning the ball over at an unprecedented rate in 2019 with the Gattis offense. Do you have any questions about why Harbaugh took the keys to the offense away from him v. Army? Any questions why the play-book looked so utterly lizard brain simple after the first half errors?

    Are the fumbles and ball handling errors a result of Shea being hurt? There is no hard evidence to support that only anecdotal observations countered by JH saying he's fine when he was asked that question directly last Monday...... and, Harbaugh isn't given to coach speak. He either won't answer or, if he answers, you can probably take it as Gospel. He may have banged up ribs but that's not Shea's problem.

    Is Patterson messing up his pre-snap reads that are crucial to the Gattis RO/RPO offense? I don't think so. Harbaugh was keen to note Patterson gets the offense into the right play based on his (pre-snap) reads v. MTSU.

    Is Patterson finding himself under enough pressure where he can't make his post snap reads/throw accurately in Gattis' offense? I'm going with this as part of it. I watched Runyan and Hayes along with Mayfield v. Army AND MTSU have trouble handling C gap delayed blitzes (that's the outside shoulder of Bredeson). Turner missed his blocking assignment on Patterson's sack-strip-fumbles in both of the first two games Those were B gap blitzes when the LBs on delayed blitz assignment saw Bredeson slide over to close the C gap. Ruiz missed a few too. IOW, the OL is getting exploited on the outside and occasionally inside by DCs who are committing to 5 and 6 man, sometime's 7 man blitz packages to stop M. It's working! ..... and OBTW, it worked in 2018 too - DCs tend to watch a lot of film.

    Now what?

    Warinner? He is a very good coach. He did not forget how to coach the OL. This isn't a "system problem." It isn't because JH isn't into the game anymore. It's football played at the high stakes college level where 18-20 year old kids are learning the game. The probability that OL play will improve to facilitate an RO/RPO Gattis style offense is high.

    Patterson? Fix the OL and he'll get better. In case the OL continues to have issues with blitzers, design plays for him so that he can punish a defense for blitzing - boot legs? Haven't seen those at all as I'm pretty sure Gattis doesn't want him to roll out but stay facing down field and make his post snap reads. He does not appear to be bailing early to me like he did last season but he is still bailing under pressure. It's too late at that point and we're into get lucky and find an open receiver territory. Get better TE and WR blocking on screens (they're getting blown up too easily) and give Patterson a few steps deeper drop when setting up for them (these have not been effective plays and need to be for the many blitz heavy defenses M faces).

    Patterson absolutely has to present a run threat to the opponent's D with the RPO or whatever play is designed to present it. If for some reason he can't do that, he should not be M's QB in Gattis' system. That's pretty simple .... the coaches may talk about what they give up in Patterson's skill set if McCaffrey, for example, goes in, but the Gattis offense won't work without the QB presenting a run threat.

    Yeah, Gattis lost the keys to the offense by the third quarter, Harbaugh took over and defaulted to what he knows..... and for good reason. MTSU was a prelude to the destruction. Mayfield gave up too many rushes to undersized DEs, even Ruiz mis-read, got faked or got plowed a couple of times. Army was destroying the OL mostly by blitzing and by extension, the Gattis offense.

    Am I "worried about Michigan football" per Klatt? Yes. But I think I understand what the coaches are dealing with after the first two games. The question has to be (1) will Warinner be able to do his magic and (2) will Harbaugh give Gattis the keys to the offense back during the bye week? What worries me the most is that Harbaugh may not do that for Wisconsin and if he doesn't and JH game plans for trench warfare as a means or protecting Shea, a lizard brain play book and a 17-10 battle tank win, Wisconsin will roll M because the book on that gig has been thoroughly read.


    Last edited by Jeff Buchanan; September 8, 2019, 04:51 PM.
    Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. But the shine on the NC Trophy is embarrassingly wearing off. It's M B-Ball ..... or hockey or volley ball or name your college sport favorite time ...... until next year.

    Comment


    • "Patterson absolutely has to present a run threat to the opponent's D with the RPO or whatever play is designed to present it. If for some reason he can't do that, he should not be M's QB in Gattis' system. That's pretty simple"

      This is exactly what I wanted to say in this thread before reading your post... Gattis' RPO offense won't work if Shea isn't going to pull the ball and take off running when he should be keeping it... Even without the fumbles, the offense will struggle to sustain drives as opposing defenses can key on the RB just as Army did. Shea (or McCaffrey) being a threat to run opens things up massively for both for the running backs but for him to throw as well. Charbonnet didn't have any holes to run through as every defender was keying on him in running situations and that is the the fault of Patterson. He was usually hit by a defender behind the line of scrimmage and its somewhat impressive he earned his 3+ ypc.

      Also in agreement that the OL is making too many mistakes that is making the offense sputter, both in pass protection and whiffing on blocks in the run game... Getting Runyan back is important, both Hayes & Mayfield missed more than their share of critical blocks.

      Comment


      • Went through a lot of this with Haskins re RPO.
        Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
        Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

        Comment


        • Yeah, the more I read the multitude of shitty post game comments on the web interspersed by very few good, analytic ones, the more I see the OL being a primary issue if not THE issue in and of itself. I think communicating and then executing the blocking schemes along the entire OL is screwed up. Missed blitzes and the poor execution of the screen passes are prima fascie evidence supporting that argument.

          Still, it's never one issue and one has to avoid making it one issue but this one is glaringly obvious. It's a trend going back to early 2018.....opponent's have learned that against Michigan you can risk the blitz because (1) the probability that one will get through M's OL is high and (2) when that happens the probability of M's QB being able to punish that blitz with an accurate throw are low. Watch the tape.

          Now add in a new offense and the attendant new blocking schemes required to execute it and we have what we have.
          Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. But the shine on the NC Trophy is embarrassingly wearing off. It's M B-Ball ..... or hockey or volley ball or name your college sport favorite time ...... until next year.

          Comment


          • Brian at mgo has opined on the Army game. His comments are consistent with those of other observers ..... the one's that have a clue most of whom do not post at mgoboard.

            Brian departs from my opinion that Patterson is fine per Harbuagh X2 Monday pressers. He says coaches are trained to lie. His reasoning is logical:

            If this is a 100% Shea Patterson, Michigan isn't doing anything this year. And it probably isn't. Patterson's lone called run of the game went four yards; Patterson was not hit but dove forward onto the ground. There he stayed. Dylan McCaffrey came in for the next two plays. Patterson returned for OT, hitting a couple of short throws across the middle in Michigan's first drive before three consecutive bad misses in OT2.

            That certainly feels like a QB who Michigan is attempting to protect, because as soon as they stop doing that he goes out of the game briefly and then airmails all his passes of any length. (The OT1 throws were inside the hashes; the OT2 throws were on the sideline.)


            Brian adds that he will try to sort out if Army was messing with Patterson's reads using scrape exchange concepts when he does the UFR.



            ......... and this, that I like a lot:

            So, like, what the hell? Why did game two of Josh Gattis become a debacle on par with Let's Put Denard Under Center? If Patterson is hurt why isn't Dylan McCaffrey playing? If Army is messing with Michigan's reads in basic scrape exchange ways, why don't you have a plan for that?

            Brian worries later in his take about Patterson's decision making which wasn't great in 2018 and hasn't been great in 2019 either. He thinks there are other QBs around the league who get the ball out quicker than Patterson does. Patterson tends to survey the field too long and tends to miss open receivers downfield instead either bailing and scrambling to make a low probability play - often failing catastrophically at that - or throwing to an outlet receiver in the flat who gets bombed by a closing CB or S who has read what's about to happen and stops it.

            I thought I saw Runyan take a few snaps at LT. He didn't and I mentioned that in those snaps he didn't do well. That was all Hayes. So, after a near flawless game at LT in relief of Runyan v. MTSU, he takes a giant step back at LT v. Army. Per JH, Runyan will play at Wisconsin, He warmed up and could have played v. Army but was held out to, according to Harbaugh, "help something he's dealing with heal up." Hayes can play RT. Would he be a better option than Mayfield? Maybe but then you have musical O Line chairs and that often does not go well.

            I don't think Brian sees the OL as being as big of an issue as I do. He offered that having Runyan back may better protect against the blitzers and leakers, playside and backside and improve Patterson's patience in the pocket. He notes that both of Patterson's fumbles were a result of missed blocks by running backs. I'd go with his view on that ....... if that helps your BPONE.

            He spends a lot of time with "The Approach." His opinions are scattered throughout his article but are consistent with the majority view of WTF. He notes that when M defaulted to the running game, it was not a default to what M did really well in 2018......

            .........I preferred Michigan giving the ball to Ben Mason on dives, which IIRC worked every time last year except for one missed assignment by Runyan, to whatever Michigan's doing right now. It's impossible to get hammered in the backfield like Michigan did when you're running the simplest play in football behind Ruiz and Onwenu. TTB:

            Michigan can block 5 with the line and read another with the QB, but bringing a 7th guy into the box makes Michigan vulnerable to the SAM linebacker here bending off the edge unblocked.(edit**) Unless Shea Patterson throws the ball quickly to the X receiver or gets it out to the trips side with a bubble or key screen, Michigan is going to struggle mightily to run the ball in this type of set against an aggressive defense.
            The one area where I wanted Michigan to continue manballing without apology is also a tactical issue now.
            .
            ** I'm watching this in the stands. My seat is on about the 5 yard line top third of the bowl and when the ball is on my side of the field I have a bird's eye view of the OL and how the defense is aligned. Two things: (1) for reasons none of us are clear on Patterson seemed not to have the option of punishing Army for leaving ONE S back when they brought 7 into the box by going deep with verts to Collins or Black, throwing slants behind the LBs or seam routes to the TEs. (2) Knowing something was up with Patterson's passing threat, Army keyed on Charbonett mercilessly making his run game a brutal slog at, what, 3.2 ypc. That had to hurt.

            Last edited by Jeff Buchanan; September 9, 2019, 03:56 PM.
            Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. But the shine on the NC Trophy is embarrassingly wearing off. It's M B-Ball ..... or hockey or volley ball or name your college sport favorite time ...... until next year.

            Comment


            • Brian typically doesn't opine too much on the OL until after UFR. He admits that he has a hard time judging their play live.

              Comment


              • Michigan Monday from the ozone is always a good read:

                What Does It All Mean?

                Tony Gerdeman lets you know how the Michigan Wolverines looked on Saturday in their 24-21 double overtime win against Army.
                Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. But the shine on the NC Trophy is embarrassingly wearing off. It's M B-Ball ..... or hockey or volley ball or name your college sport favorite time ...... until next year.

                Comment


                • Who's got it better than you?!!?!??
                  Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
                  Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by iam416 View Post
                    Who's got it better than you?!!?!??
                    Well, Brian put's it better than I could. I suppose the defense was pretty good v. Army:

                    Who's Got It Better Than Us(?) Of The Week

                    Kwity Paye, Aidan Hutchinson, Carlo Kemp, and Josh Uche combine to sack Army's QB and recover it on the final play of the game.

                    Honorable mention: Lavert Hill's INT prevents a 21-7 Army lead. Metellus grabs a fumble. Hutchinson sets up the final play with Michigan's first TFL in OT2. ?X4OROG3KOKTIFUY4YU4SNSLDIY_thumbMARCUS HALL EPIC DOUBLE BIRD OF THE WEEK.


                    Ben VanSumeren puts Michigan's third fumble of the game on the deck, condemning Michigan to a halftime deficit.

                    Honorable mention: Patterson's first fumble. Patterson's second fumble, which was Christian Turner busting a blitz pickup and not Patterson's fault. Josh Metellus's fumble recovery TD getting called back erroneously. That not being reviewable. Most offensive plays?
                    Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. But the shine on the NC Trophy is embarrassingly wearing off. It's M B-Ball ..... or hockey or volley ball or name your college sport favorite time ...... until next year.

                    Comment


                    • M is still the favorite to win the B10, so you still have things pretty damn good. In fact, better than anyone else!
                      Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
                      Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by iam416 View Post
                        M is still the favorite to win the B10, so you still have things pretty damn good. In fact, better than anyone else!
                        I don't get how that makes sense given the results on the field right now. It's certainly still possible, but I don't see it as likely.

                        Comment


                        • I don't see it as even possible at this point. We know what we've got now with Harbaugh. It's not the Harbaugh that beat Pete Carroll so bad at Stanford that we could humiliate him with a 2 point conversion. It's the Harbaugh that has lost his edge, for reasons that we do not know.
                          Last edited by Hannibal; September 11, 2019, 07:38 AM.

                          Comment


                          • It's not the Harbaugh that beat Pete Carroll so bad at Stanford that we could humiliate him with a 2 point conversion
                            That USC team was 9-4 and was also trucked by a good, but not great, Oregon team. That Stanford team finished 8-4 and added a bowl loss. At M, HARBAUGH!!!! has managed to truck some good teams big-time, but hasn't quite been able to take down the great ones. So, you have that HARBAUGH!!!!

                            His only good season at Stanford they barely beat USC at home -- another mediocre USC team -- and got assraped by the only really good team they played on their entire schedule. Then the team he left for David Shaw did almost the same thing (barely beat USC in OT; trucked by Oregon).
                            Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
                            Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

                            Comment


                            • Steve Deace and Michael Spath have some good takes. I like Steve Deace a lot. He's a big homer but not one that ignores reality.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by iam416 View Post

                                That USC team was 9-4 and was also trucked by a good, but not great, Oregon team. That Stanford team finished 8-4 and added a bowl loss. At M, HARBAUGH!!!! has managed to truck some good teams big-time, but hasn't quite been able to take down the great ones. So, you have that HARBAUGH!!!!

                                His only good season at Stanford they barely beat USC at home -- another mediocre USC team -- and got assraped by the only really good team they played on their entire schedule. Then the team he left for David Shaw did almost the same thing (barely beat USC in OT; trucked by Oregon).
                                Fair enough.

                                But FWIW that USC team beat TRESSELL!!!

                                Comment

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