Michigan Football, Team 140, 2019 Season

[iam416]

I think Ohio State was considerably behind until the Transfer Portal. Fields and Jonah Jackson help immensely. The defensive talent is there. They had dudes at most spots on the field (except, unfortunately, MLB). They gotta get that shit coached up to competent. I can't believe I'm saying this -- but that's where I expect Mattison to be pretty damn proficient. I'm not sure if he's capable of running a hellacious kick ass defense, but I do think he knows how to take over a shitass underperforming pile of vomit and get something out of it.

So, on the whole, I'd have OSU-M as a toss-up right now. But, that's contingent on Fields being good.

[Jeff Buchanan]

GM has been very good wherever he has been and he's been around. He'll do the same thing with osu's LBs that Warriner has done with M's OL.

Same for recruiting. Both of these guys attract top talent. M has offered (across the board a ton) and is actually in on a couple of top OL prospects for 2020. Let's see if M can close - something they've not been very good at and that should not be happening with in-state guys.

What, IYO, are HS DL and OL recruits looking for in a football program?

[WM Wolverine]

The top 100 overall type talent that M is missing on, they are usually looking for college programs that are NFL pipelines that are getting guys drafted every year and contend for the CFP, National Title. M is a well behind Bama, Clemson, Ohio State at getting guys to the NFL and competing in the CFP. Talent might say those recruits want to play with and against those same top 100 overall types in practice everyday to get better. There might be some truth to that but it's mostly that those programs have built a tradition of getting elite talent in recruiting and developing it into NFL players.

[iam416]

I agree with WM. I think even more directly, elite kids want to play for elite programs in elite games. But, the NFL angle is important, too. With respect to NFL, position coach can be hugely important. It's not just that you're an NFL factory, it's that your DBU or WRU or whatever. A great position coach is a real asset -- especially if you can keep them there for awhile. I really miss Kerry Coombs -- dude could recruit like mad and, as it turns out, crank out one badass DB after another. I don't think it's any coincidence that OSU DB play dropped off in the 2nd year after KC.

Warriner never really brought in highly ranked guys. He brought in kids he thought would work for what he wanted. I thought recruiting-wise that he was way more miss than hit. I think coaching-wise he's about as good as it gets with OL. So, I think you're looking at 1 or 2 pretty highly regarded kids and 3-4 "lower" kids -- assuming a class of 5 each year for OL. With his coaching you should be fine with that.

OSU's OL recruiting is about the same and they don't have the same caliber coaching, so meh.

[Jeff Buchanan]

......... M is a well behind Bama, Clemson, Ohio State at getting guys to the NFL and competing in the CFP.......

Yep, and it's frustrating as hell to watch osu's elite talent bust M's average talent - in player by player match-ups - over and over again. It's the Jimmy's and Joe's not Xs and Os thing that's most likely behind M's inability to exceed expectations, those expectations probably too high based on ....... see below.

I do think Harbaugh has been slow to adapt and has hung on about 2y too long to his man-ball based game in the face of spread concepts being widely incorporated into the best CFB offenses.

.........Warriner never really brought in highly ranked guys. He brought in kids he thought would work for what he wanted. I thought recruiting-wise that he was way more miss than hit. I think coaching-wise he's about as good as it gets with OL. So, I think you're looking at 1 or 2 pretty highly regarded kids and 3-4 "lower" kids -- assuming a class of 5 each year for OL. With his coaching you should be fine with that........

I think Warriner's philosophy reflects Harbaugh's. Sure they offer plenty of elites but those guys aren't signing with M. I can't say for sure why that happens as seemingly often as it does. My take is that with elite kids the vibe between coach, program and player isn't there so, they go somewhere else where that vibe is stronger. I dislike the "bag man" reasons. When they are offered as a reason such and such went to UGA, Bama or anywhere else, it's just dumb and lazy. I do think it happens on the margins but its not happening to the degree some fans think it is nor is it as impactful.

So, what's the vibe then? I do think Harbaugh, when it gets right down to it, prefers a certain kind of character in a player. It's like the thing above with Warriner but it appears to me that Harbaugh's recruiting process - the weeding out where character might trump talent - is a factor in diminishing the program/player vibe for some elite athletes across all units. They don't get the "love" that competitors for an elite athletes might be giving and that's not what Harbaugh is going to give them. JMO and what do I know ...... purely speculative

[iam416]

With elite kids comes gads of uncertainty. For most of them, you have to chase them to the end and for probably more than half you're never quite sure where you are. For South Florida kids, you'd rather not get a verbal early, but save your push for late. It's just really hard to compete for those kids and win. And when you lose you have holes -- or you end up in Plan C country right quick.

If I had to guess re HARBAUGH!!!! it's that he thinks (or thought) he could win mining gold from the high 3*/low 4* range and that he just couldn't deal with the uncertainty of chasing 5* kids. So, he builds a class with lots of 100-500 type kids. He'll get his occasional top 50 when the opportunity presents itself, but he's not out chasing them until NLOID. I think that's changing. I think he knows that his ultimate ambitions require "all in" recruiting.

I dunno. I think he does a very good job of recruiting. I think M is "2nd Tier" only because Alabama, Georgia (under Kirby) and OSU (under UFM) were so stupid good. I don't even think Clemson is in that range, but I think Clemson brought in more top 50 kids -- and they almost all hit. I should note -- my guess is that OSU slips down to "2nd Tier" with Day.

Anyway, there's a lot to chasing the elite kids that you have to factor in.

[WM Wolverine]

Georgia is likely joining that elite group (CFP regulars) with Kirby Smart, he's going to be excellent while he's there and Kirby/Georgia is a better comparison of where Harbaugh should have the M program instead of the comparisons to Urban's Buckeyes...

Very true about Harbaugh 'settling' for 3 & 4 star types that fit his mold instead of chasing recruits who are obviously more talented. Very frustrating as a fan of recruiting when you tell a top 150-200 talent you don't have room after taking a 3-star at his position. Harbaugh and staff has generally hit with those 3 & low 4 star types but when playing a team with as much or more talent (ND, Buckeyes, Penn State, and eventually/maybe CFP), you better be able to out scheme, out coach the opposing sideline if you want to be competitive. Fixing the latter issue will help you recruit the elite talent.

The elite talent staying in the south is an issue too but one M should be able to get enough kids from outside the B1G footprint to supplement their local talent. M has struggled enough recruiting the elite kids in B1G country and in-state though the two big names in the last class (Dobbs/Barnett); M didn't like the 'character' of either and though M didn't pass, M didn't prioritize them as highly as lesser talented guys. Those guys going elsewhere didn't surprise anyone who followed their recruitments since they were sophomores in HS...

Logan Brown OT (Wisconsin) was a much, much bigger miss as the staff had him as a top target but that was just a kid who didn't mesh with Harbaugh's 'energy'. One recruitment to watch is Justin Rogers (OG), he's a national recruit (5-star) who was favored to go to one of those four CFP powers (Georgia, OSU, Bama, Clemson) but M is putting him as a top target and has made up the ground they needed and have as good of a shot as anyone... I'd also follow the Braiden McGregor DE and Makari Paige DB recruitments, both in-state blue chippers that M should be able to keep and would be losses if they can't close... Cameron Martinez ATH is a guy who insiders expect to commit to M when he's ready, I'm not as high on his talent as some but he's a great athlete that M could use.

[Jeff Buchanan]

.......If I had to guess re HARBAUGH!!!! it's that he thinks (or thought) he could win mining gold from the high 3*/low 4* range and that he just couldn't deal with the uncertainty of chasing 5* kids. So, he builds a class with lots of 100-500 type kids. He'll get his occasional top 50 when the opportunity presents itself, but he's not out chasing them until NLOID. I think that's changing. I think he knows that his ultimate ambitions require "all in" recruiting......

I tend to think the first two sentences here are spot on.

The last one? Not convinced that he "knows." I think his belief in himself and how he does things is an obstacle to knowing and then acting on that knowledge.

[hack]

He's chased Gary and Hill to NLOID and won. Attempted to flip Naje Harris from Alabama late, which anecdotally suggests he's more than willing to put up with the uncertainty, and process 3*s late.

[iam416]

It's a volume question. One or two in a class isn't that much uncertainty. 5 or 6 is a different story. He doesn't recruit a bunch of 5* kids to the end -- or hasn't. IMO, he targets the 1 or 2 he feels like he has the best chance at and focuses on them.

[hack]

Oh, OK. Yes, that makes sense.

[iam416]

One recruitment to watch is Justin Rogers (OG), he's a national recruit (5-star) who was favored to go to one of those four CFP powers (Georgia, OSU, Bama, Clemson) but M is putting him as a top target and has made up the ground they needed and have as good of a shot as anyone... I'd also follow the Braiden McGregor DE and Makari Paige DB recruitments, both in-state blue chippers that M should be able to keep and would be losses if they can't close..

These are kids M has to land. Justin Rogers is a 5* they have to chase -- I tend to think he's a bit overrated, but not egregiously so. Regardless, he's in their backyard. I know McGregor is getting some real love - maybe from Rivals -- I haven't seen his film. Another kid they need to get. Especially because I don't think they're particularly well-positioned nationally for the 2020 class. There aren't a bunch of top 100 kids that I'm reading are big-time M leans or whatever.

Georgia is likely joining that elite group (CFP regulars) with Kirby Smart, he's going to be excellent while he's there and Kirby/Georgia is a better comparison of where Harbaugh should have the M program instead of the comparisons to Urban's Buckeye

Kirby outrecruited UFM. Whipped him for a couple ballers -- fucking Brenton Cox.

[WM Wolverine]

Agree on Justin Rogers, mostly because he's clearly a OG.

[WM Wolverine]

McGregor should receive a boost in rankings to the solid, plus four star talent.

[WingsFan]

The problem is finishing strong for a change. Other than that Michigan football is doing really well, and while I may get frustrated at his in game strategy. I wouldn't want anyone else as HC.





Lets look at what Harbaugh has done.


Michigan has the 7th best record in the nation since Harbaugh took over (4 years) Not bad!

Michigan has been the Top 25 under Harbaugh more the entire decade "before" him combined

Michigan has won more B10 games with Harbaugh (already) than Rich Rod and Hoke combined.

Last tidbit: Jim Harbaugh is the only Michigan HC in history to win his first 2 games @ East Lansing