Announcement

**WM Wolverine** · November 19, 2018, 01:42 PM

Initial hit, that's football. Jumping on him after he's down, that belongs in East Lansing.

**Hannibal** · November 19, 2018, 01:43 PM

The ball spotting fiasco was a fucking disgrace though. Not that it excuses the disgraceful play calling and time management there.

**iam416** · November 19, 2018, 01:52 PM

Meh. I mean, if you're counting on the officials to get a lightning quick spot so that you can ground it, then you've done fucked up. Seriously. The fastest they were going to get the ball down was with like 2 seconds left.

**froot loops** · November 19, 2018, 01:55 PM

You get the first down and then you clock the ball. Then you then have two shots in the end zone, anything short and you are playing with fire in my opinion.

**iam416** · November 19, 2018, 02:02 PM

Yeah, why on earth didn't they clock it? They wasted 5 seconds getting set up. McKeon was tackled with 8 seconds left. The officials needs to get the ball and get it spotted by 2 seconds at the latest to get it spiked (with a friendly clock). I mean, it was a profoundly stupid set of plays.

The run got them the first down with 19 seconds left. Clock stopped. If you clock it then you have 17 seconds left. That's time for two plays and then a FG, if necessary.

**Hannibal** · November 19, 2018, 02:04 PM

I can't figure out why coaches don't know as much about clock management as a 12 year old who plays football on his X-Box.

**AlabamAlum** · November 19, 2018, 02:04 PM

I think they wanted to play fast and catch the D out of position. Operation Chaos.

**Jeff Buchanan** · November 19, 2018, 02:16 PM

Harbaugh was asked about the play calling sequence in that particular circumstance. His response was, we had two plays called, the second one (an out route) to McKeon. We thought we could get him in the end zone with that play. The IU defender made a great play to keep him in-bounds and out of the end zone.

I've seen that particular pass play to Gentry run a bunch of times in the red zone. It has a high completion rate and when it's run inside the 10, the receiver, usually a TE and usually Gentry, gets into the end zone after the catch. I don't have a problem with that call where this time the throw went to McKeon.

What happens after that is another matter. I think you are correct that what happens if McKeon doesn't get the TD wasn't thought out well. Reasoning that that play gets a TD more times than not isn't good.

So, now you're left with 8 seconds. That's enough time for a play if the ball is spotted by the ref in the best case 2 sec. time frame you suggest or even 4. My take is that ignoring the purposefully kicked ball by an IU player and not awarding an untimed play after assessing an illegal procedure penalty to IU was incorrect. That's not saying M would have scored. But Harbaugh has a point.

**Jeff Buchanan** · November 19, 2018, 03:29 PM

I am more pissed off now than when I made a reasonable post asking a question about the referees roll in calling PF penalties consistently and in a manner that prevents a game environment where the chance of players getting injured is increased. Instead I got the standard .... mostly ..... fucking refs or I'm not going to talk about this type responses. It needs to get talked about and this isn't about preemptively putting up complaints about bad calls shit for the osu game.

Sure, I have an M bias made worse by one of M's best players being seriously injured and unlikely to play in one of M's most important games v. osu in 20 years. I'm more disappointed in the failure in this forum to recognize and/or to dismiss off-handedly the role the O'Neil crew played in injuries to M players by failing to control both the potential for and the actual commission of PFs.

I can't copy and post the videos embedded in this link to Brain's recent post on the subject at mgo. But for all of you attempting to mitigate or ignore what went down involving the failure of the John O'Neil's crew to act in such a way as to diminish the chances that players might get seriously injured need to read this carefully:

Here's the jist of the post that I linked to above. The videos will piss you off like they did me. The part of the post to skip to starts after the jump key. Press it and enjoy.

It should be noted that Winovich appeared to step on Stepaniak a play prior, which came after the Mone cheap shot from Stepaniak, etc. This stuff doesn't get escalated if the crew in charge of this game flags the first cheapshot.

Armageddon Again | mgoblog

https://mgoblog.com/content/armageddon-again

11/17/2018 – Michigan 31, Indiana 20 – 10-1, 8-0 Big Ten Indiana was defeated. It was annoying, as per usual. The method was different this time. ---------------------------- It's here, again. Football Armageddon. The last time I called a game Football Armageddon it was 12 years ago, when Michigan and Ohio State were both undefeated. Michigan ripped off a slick touchdown drive to start things off, and in the Ohio State student section I thought to myself "we're a third of the way home." This was incorrect. Michigan's defense played three inside linebackers the whole game against Troy Smith, gave up 500 yards and 42 points, and blew an opportunity to get the ball back when Shawn Crable hit Smith in the helmet on a scramble. The 2006 defense featured Alan Branch, Lamarr Woodley, Leon Hall, David Harris, four guys with decade-long NFL careers. They whooped up on everyone, but within were the seeds of the past decade of Michigan football. Michigan had one cornerback: Hall. Morgan Trent couldn't change direction with a sail and a headwind, and when the starters got pulled against Ball State two weeks prior the Cardinals mounted a comeback that ended in Michigan's redzone down only 8. The two corners who came in against Ball State were Chris Richards, the defensive coordinator's godson, and Johnny Sears, a kid from Fresno who'd never played a varsity game when Michigan offered him. They saw him at practice. (Practice! We're talking about practice!) Eight months later Michigan would field Sears as a starter in The Horror, in which a cut-rate Troy Smith exploited the same tactical naivete Smith had to hand Michigan the worst upset of all time. Football Armageddon really was Armageddon for Michigan, not because of anything Ohio State did to them in that one game but because they'd fallen behind the curve out of their own arrogance. Michigan's recruiting was increasingly lazy, dependent on guys who bothered to come to camp and random, uninformed guesses about players based on not enough scouting. They'd get about half a class of well-regarded and then pluck random dudes out of the ether for the rest. They'd singularly failed to adapt to the prevalence of the spread across college football, kicking off the Ohio State dominance that extends to the modern day. When Lloyd Carr retired he asked the athletic director to interview the two sturdiest branches on his coaching tree: his coordinators. One, Ron English, had never been a head coach and was the architect of the Horror. The other, Mike DeBord, was 12-34 at Central Michigan before quitting because he wasn't a head coach. These were the options to keep it in the family. 2006 Michigan was Indiana Jones on a rope bridge. Ohio State was the guy with the machete leering from the safety of land, but it didn't create the situation. ---------------------------- Incredibly, improbably, amazingly: Ohio State looks like it might be on a bridge of its own devising. Michigan's culture caught up to them in a slow-motion avalanche that took half a decade. OSU's got blown up in a week by Brett McMurphy and Urban Meyer's callous disregard for anything but winning. Since Zach Smith was exposed, Ohio State's house has morphed from bricks to cards. Every week (except Michigan State) brings a new sordid depth to their defensive issues. With JT Barrett off to pick up YAC in the Estonian league, the offense frequently fails to convert buckets of yards into points. There was a fourth and goal wide receiver screen against Purdue. Not incidentally, a 5-6 Purdue team that's going into the Bucket game looking for a bowl berth boatraced OSU 49-20. The nature of the series with Michigan has already changed in the post-Durkin landscape. Michigan lost by a literal inch the last time they were in Columbus despite Wilton Speight fumbling on the goal line and throwing two miserable interceptions. Last's game was 21 Michigan players outplaying the opposition and the third-string quarterback tossing up a 14.3 QBR. This isn't Michigan scrapping and clawing because "throw the records out" and we'll go for two at the end of the game because we know what's what. It's Michigan getting hit by a red shell rounding the last corner. They're there. They're good enough. They're legitimately elite by any metric you want to poke. Now they just have to do the damn thing. The consequences of failure do not bear thinking about. It's armageddon, again. Ohio State is a rope over an abyss. Sharpen your knives. AWARDS [Fuller] you're the man now, dog #1 Devin Bush. Michigan lined him up next to Gary for a blitz and that seemed unfair and also please continue doing that forever. Twelve tackles, one of them to destroy a fake punt, and one critical fourth down PBU. Run issues were mostly things he was trying to mitigate and not things that could be plausibly put on him. Update: still good. #2 Shea Patterson. Another game of almost ten yards an attempt. There were some hiccups, but the interception was an open guy on an RPO and it sailed because he got clobbered. The Gentry throw in the endzone… not so much. But the one after escaping the pocket, yeah buddy. Also chipped in 68 yards rushing. Which is a lot of yards. #3 Rashan Gary. Had half that sack mentioned above plus a thunderous speed to power rush; 7 other tackles besides when Michigan really needed DL to step up. Honorable mention: Zach Gentry had two big receptions and got interfered with twice… but maybe probably should have grabbed that ball in the endzone. Higdon had a workmanlike performance with some key broken tackles on short stuff. KFaTAotW Standings. 10: Chase Winovich (#1 ND, #3 SMU, #1 NW, T2 MSU, T1 PSU), Shea Patterson (#3 WMU, #1 Maryland, #3 PSU, #1 Rutgers, #2 Indiana). 7: Devin Bush(#3 ND, #1 Nebraska, #1 Indiana). 5: Karan Higdon (#1 WMU, #3 Nebraska, #3 Wisconsin), Donovan Peoples-Jones(T1 SMU, #3 MSU, #2 Rutgers), Rashan Gary(#2 WMU, #2 Nebraska, #3 Indiana). 4: David Long(#2 Wisconsin, T1 Michigan State), Josh Uche (T2 NW, T2 MSU, T1 PSU), Jon Runyan Jr (T1 Wisconsin, T2 PSU), Zach Gentry(T1 SMU, #2 Maryland, T3 Rutgers). 3: Juwann Bushell-Beatty(T1 Wisconsin), Jon Runyan Jr(T1 Wisconsin). 2: Ambry Thomas (#2 ND), Josh Metellus(#2 SMU), Brandon Watson(T1 MSU), Lavert Hill(T1 MSU). 1: Will Hart (#3 NW), Mike Dwumfour (T2 NW), Kwity Paye (T2 NW), Khaleke Hudson(#3 Maryland), Ben Bredeson(T2 PSU), Nico Collins(T3 Rutgers). Who's Got It Better Than Us(?) Of The Week Nick Eubanks scores his first touchdown at Michigan. An important moment in the game, sure. But his reaction afterward was a prayer to his late mom. Honorable mention: Post-game news about Edwards and Winovich is positive. Moody hits a field goal X6. Rashan Gary stops Indiana's last drive before it starts. MARCUS HALL EPIC DOUBLE BIRD OF THE WEEK. Berkeley Edwards suffers the scariest injury in Michigan Stadium in living memory after a cheap targeting hit on a kickoff return. Edwards is probably going to be fine, per Braylon, and he's tweeting, so… that's a mixed blessing. But mostly good! Honorable mention: Chase Winovich is knocked out after a different cheap shot and is maybe unavailable for next week. The end of half debacle. [After THE JUMP: cheap shots, other]

**AlabamAlum** · November 19, 2018, 03:39 PM

Heh. You crack me up, Jeff. Never change.

**froot loops** · November 19, 2018, 04:09 PM

heh

**froot loops** · November 19, 2018, 04:12 PM

12 year olds with X-box have more experience running through the scenarios. In the NFL, Harbaugh was not very good with clock management, but that is par for the course. It is very rare to see a football coach in general having good time management.

**WM Wolverine** · November 19, 2018, 05:07 PM

It's harder when you're on the field than watching from home.

**froot loops** · November 19, 2018, 09:39 PM

That's true, but many coaches just make basic blunders. Teams need clock coaches on the headsets with the only job during the game is to work out that crap. In the NFL it us much more important end of half strategy is paramount. It's not as important in the college game, but it is still important.

As a general observation, teams don't clock the ball enough, too many seconds get wasted trying to call the play.

**hack** · November 20, 2018, 10:20 AM

It's true that Harbaugh managed the clock poorly, but that doesn't release the officials from the need to do their jobs properly. If the argument was that it wasn't an on-purpose kick, that's basically akin to saying ``I'm not going to do my job properly and there's nothing you can do about it." It's the last bit of that sentence that needs to change. Transparency and accountability. Paired with massive hikes in pay. You get what you pay for.

Announcement

Please support the Forum by using the Amazon Link this Holiday Season

Michigan 31, Indiana 20.

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment