Western Michigan @ Michigan, Saturday, Sept. 8th, Noon EDT, FS1/FSgo Video

[iam416]

I've always been a more "jimmy and joes" guy than system. Of course, with thousands of posts, I'm sure I haven't been at some point -- but by and large, I'm talent over scheme. Over the long haul talent and development will carry the day. It's possible to get hoodwinked on any given Saturday, but long-term? -- no, not IMO.

I look at Alabama right now on offense, and the difference between Tua and Hurts is really significant. Tua adds a dimension to that offense that is just not good. They are more able to fully realize the stupid talent they have at WR and, of course, push the safeties back to open the run game, as if they needed help. Tua is going to be a huge, huge problem. There's always "any given Saturday," but I'm not sure anyone goes into a game against Bama as anything less than a 7 point dog.

At OSU, I *think* Haskins may get there. It's clear he can do so much more with his arm than JTB. Hopefully he does get there and that creates the same sort of space advantages Alabama is going to have. What I know for certain is that JTB could not force that sort of respect.

As noted last week by Buchanan via quoting someone he thinks is smart, if M can push the safeties back with deeper passes then lots of other things will work. I didn't really comment on this because, well, no fucking shit. If you can run the ball really well and pass the ball all over, well, yeah, you're offense will be great. M's problem remains whether the OL can allow for a deeper passing attack against good teams. And, IMO, keeping extra guys in to help isn't doing you any favors -- you obviously gain a QB that can maybe get to a 4-count for WRs that are even more outnumbered.

[hack]

We know that Harbaugh addressed his OL problems during the off-season with the hiring of Ed Warriner.

Whereas last year it was: "We know that Harbaugh addressed his OL problems during the off-season with the hiring of Greg Frey." IMO we have film now. It's no longer the offseason. Harbaugh-Frey+Warriner hasn't resulted in better line play so far. Which is alarming. You'd think that given how dysfunctional last year supposedly was, having fewer chefs in the kitchen and a supposedly better chef than the previous two would be just the thing. So IMO if you want to do a deep dive you don't assume Warriner's arrival is the end of the problem. You wonder why guys successful with OLs at previous stops weren't successful here. The answer probably isn't that they now suck but didn't before. There's something in the mix here that is off.

Which goes to talent's Jimmys/Joes/Xs/Os comment. Harbaugh can do XXs and OOs, but his position coaches aren't giving him coached-up guys who can execute. Which goes right back to him. He hired them and oversees them.

[drok]

I can but you probably don't want me to do that. AMIRIGHT!

Define good in 2 sentences...

[Jeff Buchanan]

Don't dispute the Jimmys and Joes over Xs and Os argument. But that's taking another path in this discussion about what exactly is Harbaughffense and can Michigan win championships with it. I can say the same thing to you talent that you said to me, well, no shit, if you can scheme to get the Ss out of the box with a great passing game, your run game will improve and your offense will be better; well, no shit if you have more talent, your offense will be better.

Defending Harbaugh's scheme, like I've been doing, derives from knowing Harbaugh is (1) picking a scheme and sticking with it and (2) optimizing the talent he has on the roster. I guess Harbaughffense could be considered an outlier among today's CFB teams. OTH, I can find examples of elite teams that look more like Harbaughffense in 2018 than they look like osu's IZ/OZ zone read schemes of 2017, Washington's States Air Raid or going back a few years, Rich Rod's West Virginia, Hugh Freeze's Ole Miss and what Urban Meyer was running at Utah and Florida. Yet CFB teams running these schemes are still around and still causing problems; just look at week one and two in this season. Teams that appear to me to be shifting toward what I believe Harbaughffense is would be Georgia, Clemson and Alabama...... or maybe the elite coaches in CFB are moving in this direction, Jim Harbaugh included.

If Michigan, under JH, stakes out the position that it is going to install a run-centric offense utilizing the 11 or 21 personnel schemes and depend on WCO passing concepts to enhance the run game, I'm fine with that. The reason for that optimism about Harbaughffense is that I think JH will (1) Successfully recruit to that scheme and (2) Successfully develop the players he recruits to execute it. It can become a system like Wisconsin's and Alabamas both of them having lots of time to become what they are.

Major change will submarine whatever scheme one is trying to install and recruit to so, yes, I'm going to argue as some offer tongue in cheek, stay the course in the face of criticism that Harbaughfense is old school, stale and reminds certain M fans of Mike DeBord's offense before he left M.

You can fairly complain about Harbaugh's ability to do both of those things I list in the foregoing paragraph well and the mess involving the OL can be laid squarely at his feet, so too the QB disasters but I think to a lesser extent. But, all things considered, I think Harbaughffense is a very good option for M football and will ultimately prove to be a success. That is what my position has been from the start and despite shots being taken at it from all quarters, some of them well informed, some not so well informed, I feel confident that I'm on the right side of this in the long run and TBH, I'm a lot more patient than some here and around the web.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Define good in 2 sentences...

I can do that in 4 words: Pass and run efficiently.

Do you want me to describe how that can be achieved at M in Harbaughffense? If so, it's going to take longer.

[iam416]

[Jeff Buchanan]

Well, were in agreement that Harbaugh can win with Harbaughffense.

Your point about whether or not he can recruit and develop the talent to make it so is a good one. So far, and after 3y, you could say it doesn't look good on those two fronts.

But, for me, that's a back looking position as well informed by reality as it probably is. I think Harbaugh has stubbed his toe in the OL department - both players and coaches - no argument there. But JH has history and a personality that makes me think he'll overcome this mistake and, in the long run, he'll return M's OL to the hay-day of M's OL excellence that everyone talks about and yearns for under Jerry Hanlon's 20+ year stint as M's O-Line coach under Bo then Lloyd.

The issue that I have personally come to grips with and understand better is that you have to build unit depth on the OL, develop it, win with it and then attract top HS OL recruits who want to play in that unit because the coach is good and putting guys in the NFL. The reality is that Michigan is just getting started because it's gotten fucked up on so many levels during Harbaugh's tenure that it's not starting at year 4, like Harbuagh is, it's starting at closer to year 1 and has 3 more years to go.

You can call that an excuse, I call it reality ..... deal with it. Which is exactly what Harbaugh seems to be more patiently doing than 90% of the angry fanbase ...... BTW, read Brians Return of the Baw piece at mgo. Has nothing to do with our discussion but it is a funny and enjoyable read that brings me back to the things I liked best about his writing style. He may actually be enjoying himself again and that may last until, oh, M loses a game they should have won.

https://mgoblog.com/content/return-baw-oh-my-god

[WM Wolverine]

Harbaugh has had just three full recruiting classes, so his first class are Juniors and redshirt sophomores. He inherited JBB, Runyan the starters and whiffed in his first recruiting class (Devery Hamiltin decommitted and is starting at Stanfotd) at offensive tackle. After that he has Steuber, Hudson, Mayfield, Hayes; true freshman and redshirt freshman that probably need another year before they should be on the field.