ND 24, Michigan 17

[hack]

It's totally clear that Harbaugh is wasting the talent he's bringing in. This offseason of reflection and reform may not have been enough. Perhaps he really must give up the keys to the offense. Be the coach and the QB whisperer, but hand over the strategy and tactics to a specialist.

[Hannibal]

It's too late. He has already had his chances to get the coaching staff right.

[hack]

That could be. I don't know. Gosh I hate to say this, but I hope so. I hope my first football hero turns things around, but am losing hope in having that fairytale ending to a hellish decade. Looks like more hell right now.

[WingsFan]

"Ross and Gil are lights out"

"Gentry is unguardable"

"OL is much improved"

"Runyan is most improved"

"Defense is in sync and faster"

"Dwumfour is wreaking havoc like Hurst did"

"Safeties are better in man coverage"

"Gary will be the best player on the field every game"

[Whitley]

That could be. I don't know. Gosh I hate to say this, but I hope so. I hope my first football hero turns things around, but am losing hope in having that fairytale ending to a hellish decade. Looks like more hell right now.

The depth on the O-Line is awful and that has been compounded because of the Newsome injury and loss. If you can't get protection hard to have the kind of offense that JH wants. Right now on the offensive side the margin for error is rather thin. Having a unified O-Line coach is going to be a big help BUT it takes time. Time for the kids to develop---most cases a frosh OL is not going to get many (If any) snaps. Not many kids come in with the technique or body to go to war in the Big Ten trenches from Day 1.

[entropy]

Couldn't agree more. It's absolutely baffling to me that a school with this prestige and a coach who's had as much success as Harbaugh can't seem to recruit and/or groom a marquee QB. OSU does it every year.

The # of HS in this country running an offense similar to OSU is far greater than the number running Michigan's. Combine this with the restrictions around hours of practice, # of coaches, summer training, etc... from when JH played and that offense worked in College Football..... IMO, it's less about JH coaching and more about it is very very very difficult to make that system work in today's college game.

JMO

[Jeff Buchanan]

The depth on the O-Line is awful and that has been compounded because of the Newsome injury and loss. If you can't get protection hard to have the kind of offense that JH wants. Right now on the offensive side the margin for error is rather thin. Having a unified O-Line coach is going to be a big help BUT it takes time. Time for the kids to develop---most cases a frosh OL is not going to get many (If any) snaps. Not many kids come in with the technique or body to go to war in the Big Ten trenches from Day 1.

Whitley, you and I both know that for most of the M fan base, this is just another unwarranted excuse in a long list of them in Jim Harbaugh's 4th season as M's football coach. It does not excuse the fact that ND beat Michigan in the first game of a season full of fan hope, confidence about wins and optimism. Expectations are often hard to fulfill and unfulfilled expectations are fundamentally at the core of M fan's furry ..... all types of it being expressed here and elsewhere. Some of it is good, most of it not good mainly because it's not based, at this point, on anything but feelings ball.

You only hit part of the nail on the head though with this sentence: If you can't get protection hard to have the kind of offense that JH wants.

It's hard to field an elite CFB team playing Harbaughffense that has trouble both pass protecting and running against good defenses. M's record against those kinds of opponents isn't good. It's actually terrible, inexcusable and fans would say worthy of action from the top based on the principle of accountability, i.e., replace Pep, Jay or some coach on M's staff including Harbaugh. That should fix things, right?

Wrong. You don't make progress by starting over. It irreparably hurts player recruitment and coaching staff continuity that contributes to player development. So, forget that and I'll admit its only a fringe of the fan base that is calling for Harbaugh's head although there are plenty of Pep Hamilton doubters. Pep, in reality is doing exactly what Jim wants him to do and how he wants him to do it. So forget that idea of firing him so the passing game improves too. To me, it also does no good, other than it's cathartic effect, to wildly wave your arms in complaint and scream at the coaches and players for being bad at football.

This take is also correct except on one count: Having a unified O-Line coach is going to be a big help BUT it takes time. Time for the kids to develop---most cases a frosh OL is not going to get many (If any) snaps. Not many kids come in with the technique or body to go to war in the Big Ten trenches from Day 1.

Most fans are impatient and tired of waiting. It's been over a decade since M has been any good. Harbaugh was supposed to change that and he hasn't. Understood. But, IMO, it does little good to look back and complain about the failings of team 139 versus ND, a good deal of those, but not all, having to do with OL play. That is because of the reality that you point out in your post. Good OL play doesn't simply happen becasue you demand it does. There are critical recruiting and development factors in play. Fine, critics can blame Harbaugh for fucking this up and he does deserve blame here. But that does not change the reality that you point out. To overcome the current deficit in OL talent, technique and cohesiveness, chemistry if you will, requires resetting the program, as it pertains to the critical aspect of OL play, to early 2018 with Warriner's hiring.

My advise to the angry crowd, including those at the steps of Schembechler Hall with torches and pitch forks, is let's see how this season plays out. The OL is what it is as demonstrated in game one. But, from my vantage point, it is not anywhere near as bad as it has been made out to be by fans who think they know more than M's football coaches. There's a lot of things that the coaching staff can do to mitigate this apparent OL liability. Guys grow. They become better at what they do and supposedly Ed Warriner is completely capable of coaching them to be able to do that. In this particular circumstance relating to the issue you raise (recruitment and development) it takes time; time most fans are wrongly unwilling to give. Don Brown isn't going to change his approach. He might modify some things, but he isn't going to dump his scheme and do something else. Besides, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with M's defense and the two season he's been at M prove that. Likewise, Jim Harbaugh is not going to abandon his approach to M's offense. It's who he is now and has been his entire coaching career and need I point out, he's had good results with that approach wherever he's been.

IMO, the framework for a very good football team is in place. It's the first game for God's sake, on the road, in a snake pit against what will probably turn out to be top 15 team, a contender in the CFP scheme, by the end of the season. Relax.

[Jeff Buchanan]

........ IMO, it's less about JH coaching and more about it is very very very difficult to make that system work in today's college game.

JMO

Good point but Harbaughffense, a Hybrid pro-style, power scheme, is a whole lot different than your grandmother's version of a pro-style offense played in the 80s and 90s before spread and Air Raid concepts took off at the CFB level. At least to my eyes it is. If you watch the offensive plays v. ND, Patterson was in the gun most of the snaps and there were 3 or more receivers on most plays, sometimes 5. This was an RPO offense and anyone that says it isn't is wrong. It was compromised by poor OL play and a ND defensive scheme designed to exploit M's OL weaknesses (OT play and confusion on the OL caused by stunts).

IMO, Harbaughffense can work and will work once the OL play comes around and I think there is a good chance this will happen with Ed Warriner on staff.

[Kapture1]

perhaps less overseas trips and more O-Line stunt drills.



from an outsider's perspective.

[entropy]

Jeff... perhaps I'm wrong in my understanding, but I still thought JH applied QB and WR reading the defenses the same for their passes/patterns. RPO's usually have define routes/reads and QB's typically scan only a portion of the field. You limit decisions. I was still under the impression JH had pro style concepts, regardless of being in the shotgun or the # or WR's vs # of TE's...

[WingsFan]

Higdon=JAG. Terrible vision. He looks like a Detroit Lions RB.

CCVT you mean this should have went for more than 3 yards?


DmROH-UXcAE0NPY.jpg

[WingsFan]

I hate when I agree with Valenti

[Jeff Buchanan]

Jeff... perhaps I'm wrong in my understanding, but I still thought JH applied QB and WR reading the defenses the same for their passes/patterns. RPO's usually have define routes/reads and QB's typically scan only a portion of the field. You limit decisions. I was still under the impression JH had pro style concepts, regardless of being in the shotgun or the # or WR's vs # of TE's...

Here's my take after watching Patterson play for the first time. M used both PA and RPO concepts but I thought what looked to me like an RPO scheme was used much more prevalently than the PA. I did not mean to imply that the number of wide receivers or a spread look on any given play tells you it's an RPO offense. I should have been more detailed about this when I made my post in response to yours.

In watching video with Patterson in the gun (or pistol as defined by where the RB positions himself and I didn't flesh that out), he was reading the defense before and at the snap and then to the mesh. I'm pretty sure he didn't have more than one or two reads but he had reads nonetheless. I would guess zone or man and if man, look for your primary then secondary receivers breaking open. If Zone, give to the RB. ND played almost all zone so, I think at some point (play calls for the QB in the gun), whoever was calling the plays, rather than actually having an RPO for Patterson, had him simply have one or two receiver reads and throw to the open man or it was a pre-selected run play from the gitgo (i.e., the play was a pre-selected pass or run play for him - and he went to his wrist band when that kind of call came in from the sideline).

He was pure pro-style PA when under center. I didn't like that combo between the 40s - keep him in the gun was my take and my quick eyeball count says he was in the gun most of the time between the 40s. In the red zone, I was fine with him under center and using the PA. Even inside the 10 where fans complained about the PA even being run, it allows you to see what the defense does with your play fake. Unfortunately, Patterson took a bad sack on one of those PA's inside the 10 setting up a FG try that was muffed. He should have just launched it to the back of the end zone instead of trying to run away from defenders. Never a good idea. On another play, you see exactly how the PA is supposed to work inside the 10. On the PA, the LBs took a step forward leaving Gentry a clear opening on the goal line. The ND safety who did step back as the LBs stepped up, made a great play to get back to Gentry and break up the pass that was dead on and would have been 7 points save the great play by the ND safety.

Hope this helps clear up my take.

[UMStan White]

"I'll admit its only a fringe of the fan base that is calling for Harbaugh's head"

I think you have lost touch with the fan base if you really believe this.

[iam416]

Valenti's principle take on HARBAUGH!!!! -- that he should turn over the offensive keys to an OC -- is one that talk radio brings up with UFM, too. Especially during the JTB years when the offense would look just not good in big games. There's even some concern that when UFM returns that the play-calling will change from what Day-Wilson are doing. I don't think UFM will ever drop out of the offense room, but I do think it makes sense to put guys like Day and Wilson in charge -- I mean, if you're going to pay those guys, let them run it.

Long way of saying that this particular critique isn't unique to M and, IMO, it has some validity. When I look at Patterson and that set of WRs and a Higdon/Evans platoon, that reads spread to me all day long. Get those guys in space. It doesn't read Stanford. At all. Going from memory only I thought M did some RPO/spready stuff but also sort of hybrid'ed it up with more traditional under center power stuff. That seems like a half measure and half measures don't work.