Matt Stafford is the suckiest suck to ever suck

[Futureshock]

And being drafted in the top 5 (CLE had 2 last year) and mid round is supposed to be the same.

[wcfwtf]

8 more years and we may be able to retire this thread

[froot loops]

And you continue to show you have no idea what a "middling to lesser" QB actually is.

That's fine. I think a lot of Lions fans have been spoiled by Stafford at this point and think he represents some sort of mean-level QB. They're wrong, and so are you. Remove Stafford from this team and replace him with an ACTUAL "middling to lesser" QB, and 6-10 would have been their CEILING for the last ten years, rather than the low point it was last season.

This

It is pretty much a Lion maxim that they can never replace good players with better players unless its a field goal kicker. They will understand once they the Lions replace Stafford. They'll be singing Tom Keifer's greatest hit.

You guys are spinning your wheels trying to argue with Fraquar about the resources argument. That's his greatest hit. In his world once they draft a Titus Young and a Jahvid Best, the franchise should be good fpor another decade without having to draft a RB or WR.

[dpatnod]

I believe that this is the course offering at DWT/Gonz university:

It is the natural second semester following 'Less than 5 YPC dipshit! 101'

[TheLondonLion]

[Futureshock]

The Red Raider? Disagree.

[TheLondonLion]

• Sporting News: 17th
• Bleacher Report: 14th
• Athlon Sports: 15th
• Yahoo; Chris Simms: 14th
• The Touchdown Wire: 21st

[Fraquar]

I believe that this is the course offering at DWT/Gonz university:

Partial Qualifiers 210- An introduction to partially qualifying statements that will let you ignore reality and certain facts.....this will enable you to continue to claim you're right in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

The original statement was about Mayfield having better talent on the field to work with than Stafford does...how this was changed to only players drafted by and still on the team IDK. So you either don't understand the topic of conversation or you've significantly altered the criteria of evaluation to suit your needs (to always never be wrong).

Your issue seems to be with WHERE those picks were taken and how the GM did what the Lions GM have repeatedly refused to do - manipulate the draft by moving down and making moves to get more players and future picks. Guess what, you don't get additional 1st rd picks because you suck, you get them from trading with teams other than NE......

Look at their work in the draft and you will find it has some similarities with the NE approach - acquire additional picks in future years whenever you can, in places in the draft where you can potentially acquire good talent early.

Look:
2013: Traded RB Trent Richardson to Indy for their 2014 1st Rder
2014: Traded out of the 4 hole (where Ansah was drafted) got 2 1sts from Buffalo, one was for 2015
2015: Used both 1st Rd picks - and one was on the bust Manziel....
2016: Traded out of both the 2 hole (Phily and got an additional 2017 1st rder and an additional 2018 2nd rder, and the 8 hole with Tennessee and acquired an additional 2017 2nd rder
2017: Traded out of the 12 hole with Houston (down to 25 and got an additional 2018 1st Rder), traded a 2nd and 4th rd to move back into Rd 1 with GB
2018: Used both 1st Rd picks, the latter was a net +21 move in the draft over one year from #25 to #4

THAT is how they got those additional picks, and that is the very thing the Lions repeatedly don't seem to understand. Lions dabble in getting additional 5th/6th/7th rd picks, which rarely if ever actually gets you the kind of players that can upgrade your roster talent wise.

[Nick Pappageorgio]

Are you trying to tell us he had an off year? We know. Nobody missed it...and nobody is arguing that last season was his finest.

However.....Unless you believe he's started to decline (which would be early for Qbs) then his ranking is probably more like the 5-10. Because.....

He had an bad season for him....but he'll probably trend more towards the mean this season (that's up)....whereas some of those QB ranked above him (who played beyond their ability last year) will regress back to the mean. I don't even have to look at those lists to know some of the types of guys ranked above him...and they're not better. They had a better team or they got on a roll personally.

But 15-20 team with better QBs....I'm not buying it. I'm not trying to convince you. I just think your wrong.

[Nick Pappageorgio]

Your issue seems to be with WHERE those picks were taken and how the GM did what the Lions GM have repeatedly refused to do - manipulate the draft by moving down and making moves to get more players and future picks. Guess what, you don't get additional 1st rd picks because you suck, you get them from trading with teams other than NE......

Look at their work in the draft and you will find it has some similarities with the NE approach - acquire additional picks in future years whenever you can, in places in the draft where you can potentially acquire good talent early.

Look:
2013: Traded RB Trent Richardson to Indy for their 2014 1st Rder
2014: Traded out of the 4 hole (where Ansah was drafted) got 2 1sts from Buffalo, one was for 2015
2015: Used both 1st Rd picks - and one was on the bust Manziel....
2016: Traded out of both the 2 hole (Phily and got an additional 2017 1st rder and an additional 2018 2nd rder, and the 8 hole with Tennessee and acquired an additional 2017 2nd rder
2017: Traded out of the 12 hole with Houston (down to 25 and got an additional 2018 1st Rder), traded a 2nd and 4th rd to move back into Rd 1 with GB
2018: Used both 1st Rd picks, the latter was a net +21 move in the draft over one year from #25 to #4

THAT is how they got those additional picks, and that is the very thing the Lions repeatedly don't seem to understand. Lions dabble in getting additional 5th/6th/7th rd picks, which rarely if ever actually gets you the kind of players that can upgrade your roster talent wise.

wow....that was an exercise in complete idiocy...hope it didn't take you too long to type up.

[froot loops]

Your issue seems to be with WHERE those picks were taken and how the GM did what the Lions GM have repeatedly refused to do - manipulate the draft by moving down and making moves to get more players and future picks. Guess what, you don't get additional 1st rd picks because you suck, you get them from trading with teams other than NE......

Look at their work in the draft and you will find it has some similarities with the NE approach - acquire additional picks in future years whenever you can, in places in the draft where you can potentially acquire good talent early.

Look:
2013: Traded RB Trent Richardson to Indy for their 2014 1st Rder
2014: Traded out of the 4 hole (where Ansah was drafted) got 2 1sts from Buffalo, one was for 2015
2015: Used both 1st Rd picks - and one was on the bust Manziel....
2016: Traded out of both the 2 hole (Phily and got an additional 2017 1st rder and an additional 2018 2nd rder, and the 8 hole with Tennessee and acquired an additional 2017 2nd rder
2017: Traded out of the 12 hole with Houston (down to 25 and got an additional 2018 1st Rder), traded a 2nd and 4th rd to move back into Rd 1 with GB
2018: Used both 1st Rd picks, the latter was a net +21 move in the draft over one year from #25 to #4

THAT is how they got those additional picks, and that is the very thing the Lions repeatedly don't seem to understand. Lions dabble in getting additional 5th/6th/7th rd picks, which rarely if ever actually gets you the kind of players that can upgrade your roster talent wise.

That's all very nice, but the reason any of this was brought up is the skill position players the Lions had stunk especially after injuries and trades. Bang on the Lion front office all you want, it is warranted but it doesn't ecape the fact that Stafford was handing the ball off to ZZ and tossing it to street free agents by the second half of the season. That doesn't work in the NFL very well.

[TheLondonLion]

[Nick Pappageorgio]

Staring down receivers and a questionable ability to diagnose pressure

This part is BS....at least you noticing it in his game is. There is no way for you to make this determination without know what was going on with the O and in the meeting rooms (or coach's film).

A shit (predictable) O is definitely a reason for both those things listed. And for the past two years we've read opposing player continually say after playing the Lions that the D knew exactly what the O was going to run.....but no chance that that had any thing to do with it. It's all because Stafford sucks

I'm not having this argument again....it's fucking stupid. Maybe if I ignored all logic and objective observation...then had a frontal lobotomy.....I could agree with what you're saying. But no...I'm done here

[Fraquar]

This part is BS....at least you noticing it in his game is. There is no way for you to make this determination without know what was going on with the O and in the meeting rooms (or coach's film).

A shit (predictable) O is definitely a reason for both those things listed. And for the past two years we've read opposing player continually say after playing the Lions that the D knew exactly what the O was going to run.....but no chance that that had any thing to do with it. It's all because Stafford sucks

I'm not having this argument again....it's fucking stupid. Maybe if I ignored all logic and objective observation...then had a frontal lobotomy.....I could agree with what you're saying. But no...I'm done here

WE knew what the team was going to do most of the time it was that predictable. WE could have walked to that huddle and told Stafford the play, and he's a 10 year veteran QB. It's like he's perfectly fine watching the same train wreck being called in the same situations every week - THAT is the disturbing part of Stafford's game. You'd expect that out of a 2nd year QB who is still learning the ropes, you expect a 10 year vet to get with his OC and either hash things out and change things, or make waves to get a new OC - because doing the same shit in the same situations each and every week is like trying to open a door with your forehead.

[Nick Pappageorgio]

That.....is a legit concern Fraq.

No argument here.......If I have ever had one bitch about Stafford, it's that he doesn't ever get heated with anyone. As a QB...he plays the whole thing aloof.