Matt Stafford is the suckiest suck to ever suck

[LightninBoy]

I don't get this argument, with this strategy you are hoping a QB falls to a value position that may be a franchise QB. Generally QBs are overvalued in the draft and go much higher than you would expect.

If you don't think he is a franchise QB, trade him or cut him as soon as possible. If you think he is a problem and can't lead you to a Super Bowl you have to get rid of him because it is a total teardown and he will help you win enough games to reside in the 7-9 to 9-7 zone. That is unhelpful, plus it is most likely your next Franchise QB will get drafted in the top 10. You should want a QB much worse than him once you determine he isn't the franchise guy.

I agree - trade or cut him as soon as possible. That "as soon as possible" is around 2020. So my post was about what to do over the next few years until Stafford can be traded or released, which is: acknowledge Stafford is not the franchise QB and act accordingly. That means considering drafting a potential franchise QB in the top rounds if a good prospect is there, which is something you would never do if you already had an established franchise QB.

[LightninBoy]

Also, Kirk Cousins and Alex Smith are not journeymen quarterbacks not are they being paid like one.

Maybe journeyman QB is not the right term. I used them as examples of average to good QBs that teams are willing to pay for but not commit long term to as a franchise QB. What would you call them? Leased QBs? Cousins is a "luxury lease" maybe?

[froot loops]

Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins are being paid like franchise quarterbacks. They aren't leases, they got more guaranteed money than Stafford as far as I can tell.

ASAP means right now, there is no need to wait until 2020. Wait for what? If you have determined he isn't the franchise quarterback it means it is a tear down. Waiting is counterproductive., you don't need to worry about cap space in a tear down, you want to.be as bad as possible anyway. If you don't think he's the answer there is no other option. See if you can ttrade him after the season, get some more picks

[chemiclord]

Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins are being paid like franchise quarterbacks. They aren't leases, they got more guaranteed money than Stafford as far as I can tell.

ASAP means right now, there is no need to wait until 2020. Wait for what? If you have determined he isn't the franchise quarterback it means it is a tear down. Waiting is counterproductive., you don't need to worry about cap space in a tear down, you want to.be as bad as possible anyway. If you don't think he's the answer there is no other option. See if you can ttrade him after the season, get some more picks

Hey, if that's the goal, I'm actually all for it. But it needs to be a complete enema of the organization if that's going to have a chance of success. Fire everyone from Rod Wood down, then call the league and actually accept the help that was offered all those years ago, because clearly the Ford ownership is incapable of building a front office.

But I don't think too many people here actually want a return to the 0,1, and 2 win teams of the turn of the millennium.

[wcfwtf]

Well they are on their second teams and cousins may see 3 or 4 teams before he's done, same with Smith if injury doesn't end his career.

[froot loops]

Those are the only two options, you either find a team with Stafford or you tear everything down. There is no soft landing drafting his replacement, it doesn't make any sense. You might not want 1 or 2 wins, tough shit that's what needs to happen if he is no longer the answer.

It still doesn't change the fact that the Lions are failures at finding talent or finding coaches. People want to point to Mahomes, shit the Lions have never had a coach even close to Andy Reid. Stafford is having a bad year, but he is stuck in the same shit, the team sucks, they have a bad front office and a bad coach.

[wcfwtf]

How else do you qualify a journeymen QB other then by them moving around.
Peyton Manning would not have moved on except for injury.

Favre got forced to move by forcing Rodgers into starting role.

[froot loops]

Well they are on their second teams and cousins may see 3 or 4 teams before he's done, same with Smith if injury doesn't end his career.

Who gives a flying fuck? They are being paid like Stafford, the point where people continually complain about Stafford's contract applies to those guys as well. All the nonsense about his contract hindering the Lions getting good players would still apply to those contracts.

[chemiclord]

Those are the only two options, you either find a team with Stafford or you tear everything down. There is no soft landing drafting his replacement, it doesn't make any sense. You might not want 1 or 2 wins, tough shit that's what needs to happen if he is no longer the answer.

It still doesn't change the fact that the Lions are failures at finding talent or finding coaches. People want to point to Mahomes, shit the Lions have never had a coach even close to Andy Reid. Stafford is having a bad year, but he is stuck in the same shit, the team sucks, they have a bad front office and a bad coach.

My feeling is that the Lions are never actually going to burn it all down. The best they'll do is what they did in hiring Millen; fire just enough people to sate the mob, keep all the toadies, and get all the shit beginnings of a rebuild then plateau right where we are now. They might as well keep toiling in mediocrity, and maybe get lucky catching lighting in a bottle like the Arizona Cardinals did a decade ago.

If the Ford family ever sells the team, then maybe we'll be able to see a complete tear down. Until then, there's no point.

[froot loops]

How else do you qualify a journeymen QB other then by them moving around.
Peyton Manning would not have moved on except for injury.

Favre got forced to move by forcing Rodgers into starting role.

Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins are two of the highest paid QBs in NFL history. Smith will have 174 million in career earnings and Cousins will have earned 130 million. You guys can look at google, they aren't journeyman if you get paid that much. Ryan Fitzpatrick is a journeyman.

[LightninBoy]

Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins are being paid like franchise quarterbacks. They aren't leases, they got more guaranteed money than Stafford as far as I can tell.

Alright, what would you call them? I'm not married to any term and it isn't central to my point. So lets call them fuzzywuzzy QBs and leave it at that.

ASAP means right now, there is no need to wait until 2020. Wait for what? If you have determined he isn't the franchise quarterback it means it is a tear down. Waiting is counterproductive., you don't need to worry about cap space in a tear down, you want to.be as bad as possible anyway. If you don't think he's the answer there is no other option. See if you can ttrade him after the season, get some more picks

Well, that's better than continuing to pretend that Stafford is a franchise QB, so I'd be fine with that too. Again, my hope is that they acknowledge that Stafford is not a franchise QB and act accordingly. My way or yours, I'd be satisfied with either.

[froot loops]

The Lions asked for help after they fired Mayhew and the league provided Erie Accorsi who recommended Bob Quinn who made a big huge search to hire his crony Matt Patricia. The NFL is still run by Roger Goodell, I don't think asking for their help is some magic bullet.

[froot loops]

Alright, what would you call them? I'm not married to any term and it isn't central to my point. So lets call them fuzzywuzzy QBs and leave it at that.



Well, that's better than continuing to pretend that Stafford is a franchise QB, so I'd be fine with that too. Again, my hope is that they acknowledge that Stafford is not a franchise QB and act accordingly. My way or yours, I'd be satisfied with either.

I think the term franchise qb is silly and meaningless. If he's the quarterback, he is the quarterback. Once you decided you can't win with him you cut him loose. I think your designation that he is no longer a franchise quarterback is silly.

The Lions still have the same problem as always, a lack of fucking talent. They spent a second round pick on Teez Tabor when everyone said he was too slow, the smartest man in the room said he was a playmaker. He was a healthy scratch on Thursday.

The Lions struggled to have a 9-7 season last year, they had an awful off season and they had a downgrade at coach from Caldwell, expecting any QB to be some sorcerer to solve this shit is foolish.

[LightninBoy]

I think the term franchise qb is silly and meaningless. If he's the quarterback, he is the quarterback. Once you decided you can't win with him you cut him loose. I think your designation that he is no longer a franchise quarterback is silly.

The Lions still have the same problem as always, a lack of fucking talent. They spent a second round pick on Teez Tabor when everyone said he was too slow, the smartest man in the room said he was a playmaker. He was a healthy scratch on Thursday.

The Lions struggled to have a 9-7 season last year, they had an awful off season and they had a downgrade at coach from Caldwell, expecting any QB to be some sorcerer to solve this shit is foolish.

Come on man I'm trying to have a respectful conversation here. No one said anything about a QB solving all of this. We are talking about how to best move on from Stafford - Teez Tabor has nothing to do with that. Oh and btw regarding Teez Tabor ...

I hate being right all time.

As far as the term franchise QB being meaningless - wow you really are on a semantic nick-picking roll tonight. Not sure if you are being purposefully obtuse or sincere, but let me google the meaning for you just in case its sincere ...

"In professional sports, a franchise player is an athlete who is not simply the best player on their team, but one that the team can build their "franchise" around for the foreseeable future. The term may be used alongside a particular position name to describe a player, such as a "franchise quarterback" in American football."

So now it should be perfectly clear what I mean when I say to stop treating Stafford as a franchise QB.

[Fraquar]

The term "franchise QB" is meant to mean that the guy you got is going to take your franchise farther than you are now in the future. They've been calling Stafford a "franchise QB" for 10 years now and the future is now the past and they have nothing to show for it. The only questions are how much longer is he the QB of the future and will the future be any different? TBH, it's hard to see how the future is going to be much different unless a meteor hits Allen Park.