Matt Stafford is the suckiest suck to ever suck

[dpatnod]

you don't pay them to participate like the Lions do.

Does Andy Dalton know?

[JGSpartan]

They could've tried Holdouts, Don't sign long term deals, Force them to franchise you. Neither of them made a serious attempt at getting out. They did cave when Suh forced their hand with the money being too much. They could have too with franchise tags. They didn't try. I understand that Suh played his way out masterfully with the reworked deals pushing his cap number up but the same would have happened to Calvin or Barry just by the nature of the Franchise tags yearly raises.

They aren't good examples of your narrative when they didn't even make any real attempt to get out. They did the opposite. They both willingly signed long-term deals. Suh didn't, he made them make a choice. Telling them you'd like to be traded or to leave is not the same as forcing their hand. Of course ownership is gonna bite down and say no we aren't gonna just let you go. The Lions aren't any different. They are bad owners but they won't keep paying a player that doesn't play or that gets way too high a tag.

No one made either of them re-sign. Arguing they were stuck when they never really tried to get out is just a baseless argument.

[chemiclord]

They could've tried Holdouts, Don't sign long term deals, Force them to franchise you. Neither of them made a serious attempt at getting out. They did cave when Suh forced their hand with the money being too much. They could have too with franchise tags. They didn't try. I understand that Suh played his way out masterfully with the reworked deals pushing his cap number up but the same would have happened to Calvin or Barry just by the nature of the Franchise tags yearly raises.

They aren't good examples of your narrative when they didn't even make any real attempt to get out. They did the opposite. They both willingly signed long-term deals. Suh didn't, he made them make a choice. Telling them you'd like to be traded or to leave is not the same as forcing their hand. Of course ownership is gonna bite down and say no we aren't gonna just let you go. The Lions aren't any different. They are bad owners but they won't keep paying a player that doesn't play or that gets way too high a tag.

No one made either of them re-sign. Arguing they were stuck when they never really tried to get out is just a baseless argument.

See, this is the mistake you keep making.

They don't "have to pay." All they have to do is offer the franchise tender. If the player refuses to sign, then the team DOESN'T take a hit on the cap... but get this... the player isn't allowed to negotiate with another team, either. The player's only option is to either sign that ONE YEAR offer (which again, outside of being unsigned at all, is the LAST place ANY player wants to be in this sport, especially), or not play. The Lions would happily let that player hold out, because it's no skin off their teeth.

Yes, a player could theoretically keep taking those one year deals until it becomes completely untenable for the team (usually around the 2-3 year range), but that is a long time and a massive risk for the player. One bad break (potentially literally) and your career is over with no protection. One sub par year, and forget about a good long-term deal from anyone else. A thousand possible bad resolutions as opposed to one or two good ones. Saying, "oh, but they have options!" is an EXTREMELY disingenuous claim (even if technically correct).

It's not a particularly viable option. And that's the entire reason for the franchise tag, to pressure a player to re-sign. A team with the Lions, whose owners would (and have) screw themselves just to make a point about their total control over the franchise? They'd play that game forever if they had to.

[JGSpartan]

And yet somehow players get out of contracts or get traded every year. Including unhappy Lions players like Slay.

I'm not disagreeing that the system heavily favors the teams. However, this idea that disgruntled players will forever be stuck in Detroit just has no basis in reality as it hasn't been the case with players who actually seriously tried to get out.

[chemiclord]

Slay got out because the coaching staff and front office didn't want him. You keep willfully ignoring that vitally important part.

[JGSpartan]

You're ignoring that the coaching staff and front office wanted him gone because he wasn't going to resign and made it clear he was unhappy. The exact opposite of the other guys' behavior. You're making the assumption that had CJ and Barry done the same they would have never got out. NFL precedent and the lions own precedent show that isn't the case.

They didn't retire as lions because they couldn't get out. They did because they didn't want to try. If you can look at either of their scenarios and believe they made a real effort to get out of town then you're just kidding yourself.

All that said I'll read any rebuttal you wish to make to this comment but I think we've beat this horse dead so ill respectfully make this my last comment on the subject.

[chemiclord]

The Lions precedent shows that's EXACTLY the case. They literally said, "you play for us or you don't play at all."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/1999/0914/57651.html

But fine. We can agree to disagree on this score, I suppose.

[Marko69]

Guys, FFS, come on eh! This ain’t the thread for that.
Matt Stafford fucking sucks.

Take it to the “GOAT voluntarily leaves the Lions because they’ll forever suck” thread.

[chemiclord]

Guys, FFS, come on eh! This ain’t the thread for that.
Matt Stafford fucking sucks.

Take it to the “GOAT voluntarily leaves the Lions because they’ll forever suck” thread.

Well, it actually is rather relevant to the Stafford sucks... because I can promise you that's what is facing Stafford. Anyone who wants him traded or hopes he'll leave... well get the thorazine, because Stafford isn't going anywhere, even if he wanted to. He's going to get the same two options as Barry and CJ. Play for the Lions, or play for nobody.

[dpatnod]

Fuckin Stafford!

[TheLondonLion]

Well, it actually is rather relevant to the Stafford sucks... because I can promise you that's what is facing Stafford. Anyone who wants him traded or hopes he'll leave... well get the thorazine, because Stafford isn't going anywhere, even if he wanted to. He's going to get the same two options as Barry and CJ. Play for the Lions, or play for nobody.

That entirely depends on what happens with the GM situation. If a new GM comes in they will likely want to rebuild with their own guy. That’s what we see regularly when it happens.

[chemiclord]

That entirely depends on what happens with the GM situation. If a new GM comes in they will likely want to rebuild with their own guy. That’s what we see regularly when it happens.

If the Fords say Stafford isn't going anywhere, Stafford isn't going anywhere.

Now, it MAY be possible that the Fords will let the new guy make his choices, but history suggests they'll meddle. Remember, these are the same people who openly talked about retaining Jim Caldwell before even hiring their next GM. You all need to quit looking at what the Lions do based on what other owners do.

[-Deborah-]

I thought this was worth saving.

20201123_091118.jpg

[Mainevent]

If the Fords say Stafford isn't going anywhere, Stafford isn't going anywhere.

Now, it MAY be possible that the Fords will let the new guy make his choices, but history suggests they'll meddle. Remember, these are the same people who openly talked about retaining Jim Caldwell before even hiring their next GM. You all need to quit looking at what the Lions do based on what other owners do.

Yeah, Quinn came out of the gate lacking. Not only accepting Caldwell as his coach, but then using that as a crutch about how he wasn't comfortable scouting players for Caldwell's schemes.

Somebody needs to come in and just tell them the truth - Stafford is almost 33 years old, he's not getting better and he's not the answer to being a long term consistent contender Sheila and the Girls claim they want. There needs to be a long-term QB solution. They can either try to trade Stafford or let him play out the next couple of years of his contract, but they have to go get a real QB prospect.

If Sheila and the gang don't want to hear that and will take somebody blowing smoke up their ass that the Lions are a quick turnaround team, then there isn't much that can be done.

[Futureshock]

You're ignoring that the coaching staff and front office wanted him gone because he wasn't going to resign and made it clear he was unhappy. The exact opposite of the other guys' behavior. You're making the assumption that had CJ and Barry done the same they would have never got out. NFL precedent and the lions own precedent show that isn't the case.

They didn't retire as lions because they couldn't get out. They did because they didn't want to try. If you can look at either of their scenarios and believe they made a real effort to get out of town then you're just kidding yourself.

All that said I'll read any rebuttal you wish to make to this comment but I think we've beat this horse dead so ill respectfully make this my last comment on the subject.

The Lions precedent shows that's EXACTLY the case. They literally said, "you play for us or you don't play at all."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/1999/0914/57651.html

But fine. We can agree to disagree on this score, I suppose.

I think you both are right to a degree.