Matt Stafford is the suckiest suck to ever suck

[Nick Pappageorgio]

Except for Callaway...who was a first rd talent who slipped because of character concerns. And except for David Njoku......1st rd TE, And competent RBs

but other than a bunch of 1st and 2nd rd picks......yeah nothing special

[Fraquar]

Are you insane? That team is absolutely loaded with 1st and second round picks. He has a better team around him then MS does. Last year and this year's Browns has more talent then any team MS has ever had around him.

The worst thing about some of you is that you go so far that you force people to defend him because the crap smells so bad.

That Lions offense is littered with 1st and 2nd Rd picks and expensive FA's - always has been. The Lions problems is they have nothing once you get past that, they don't develop any WR's or TE on the depth chart that ever amount to anything. The only issue in terms of lacking 1st/2nd rd picks the Lions have had in the Stafford era was at G, and they went overboard to address that in the last 4 years.

The issue isn't that the Lions haven't thrown top resources at the offense, they always have - it's just they don't get the most out of them.

[Futureshock]

Top ten and multiple firsts in several years vs 1 mid to high pick once a year isn't the same Hos. But don't let logic get in your way. Please continue...

[Fraquar]

Top ten and multiple firsts in several years vs 1 mid to high pick once a year isn't the same Hos. But don't let logic get in your way. Please continue...

Where is your argument?

Last years rosters:
Lions: 5 1sts, 5 2nd's and 3 3rds that they drafted
Browns: 5 1sts, 5 2nd's and 4 3rds that they drafded

They have virtually the identical resources poured into their teams that are homegrown from the top of the draft - it's just that the Browns have wasted a ton more that never panned out.

[gibby]

That Lions offense is littered with 1st and 2nd Rd picks and expensive FA's - always has been. The Lions problems is they have nothing once you get past that, they don't develop any WR's or TE on the depth chart that ever amount to anything. The only issue in terms of lacking 1st/2nd rd picks the Lions have had in the Stafford era was at G, and they went overboard to address that in the last 4 years.

The issue isn't that the Lions haven't thrown top resources at the offense, they always have - it's just they don't get the most out of them.

And in my mind, that's the fault of coaching.

I always get a giggle out of hearing about a player going to the lions and hear "he'll be great once he gets coached up".

[Futureshock]

Where is your argument?

Last years rosters:
Lions: 5 1sts, 5 2nd's and 3 3rds that they drafted
Browns: 5 1sts, 5 2nd's and 4 3rds that they drafded

They have virtually the identical resources poured into their teams that are homegrown from the top of the draft - it's just that the Browns have wasted a ton more that never panned out.

I guess I have to spell it out for you:

Cleveland:

Baker Mayfield

1

Denzel Ward

4

Austin Corbett

33

Nick Chubb

35

Myles Garrett

1

David Njoku

29

Corey Coleman

15

Emmanuel Ogbah

32

The ones that they flipped, i.e. J Peppers, they did for first round talent like OBJ. Add in FA signees and trade acquisitions like J Landry, Hunt, etc.. (NOT HOMEGROWN) and there's no question who has the most talent


Detroit:

1	T.J. Hockenson
2	Jahlani Tavai

1	Frank Ragnow
2	Kerryon Johnson

1	Jarrad Davis
2	Teez Tabor

1	Taylor Decker
2	A'Shawn Robinson

The Lions acquired Snacks, M Jones, R Wagner, and now T Flowers

The Browns had 2 H-I-G-H 1st round picks in 2018 and 2016. The Lions have had a whole 1 high first round pick (Hockenson) over that same time span.

If you can't understand the difference we can not have a conversation because you don't understand how the league works.

pANDs the Lions have had less work out for them then the Browns. The Lions will hold on to them until they're dirt, whereas the Browns (especially under Dorsey) will get rid of them and flip them for better talent.

[Futureshock]

Anyway you slice it the mouth by the lake has a lot more to work with then MS. He was throwing to PS and street level players at the end of last year when the mouth was making a Better Record Run.

[Nick Pappageorgio]

So the high draft picks they flipped for other players (OBJ) or other big FAs just don't count?

That seems fair.....I mean if you ignore any evidence that makes your (bullshit) take look weaker, then your argument must be strong.

You must be a recent graduate of DWT/Gonz university

[Futureshock]

I mean... It's unbelievable. We all watched both teams get constructed and we are actually debating this?

God take me now! Earth was cool

[TheLondonLion]

So the high draft picks they flipped for other players (OBJ) or other big FAs just don't count?

That seems fair.....I mean if you ignore any evidence that makes your (bullshit) take look weaker, then your argument must be strong.

You must be a recent graduate of DWT/Gonz university

[Fraquar]

So the high draft picks they flipped for other players (OBJ) or other big FAs just don't count?

That seems fair.....I mean if you ignore any evidence that makes your (bullshit) take look weaker, then your argument must be strong.

You must be a recent graduate of DWT/Gonz university

At the end of the day, in 2018 CLE and DET had the exact same number of 1st and 2nd Rd picks on their rosters that their team drafted. Exact same number, regardless of what GM's did or how poorly those teams did. That's all I'm saying, CLE last year was in no better position to succeed than the Lions were, and when you look at it the real barrier to them getting better was HUE and nothing but HUE. HUE was the HC equivalent of Matt Millen, he didn't have an earthly idea what he was doing.

[Fraquar]

You guys are making the argument that NE should never have a chance every year because they pick 32nd? Lol, it doesn't work that way.

[TheLondonLion]

At the end of the day, in 2018 CLE and DET had the exact same number of 1st and 2nd Rd picks on their rosters that their team drafted. Exact same number, regardless of what GM's did or how poorly those teams did. That's all I'm saying, CLE last year was in no better position to succeed than the Lions were, and when you look at it the real barrier to them getting better was HUE and nothing but HUE. HUE was the HC equivalent of Matt Millen, he didn't have an earthly idea what he was doing.

Very true. And the new HC doesnt exactly seem like Parcells either.

[chemiclord]

And you continue to show you have no idea what a "middling to lesser" QB actually is.

That's fine. I think a lot of Lions fans have been spoiled by Stafford at this point and think he represents some sort of mean-level QB. They're wrong, and so are you. Remove Stafford from this team and replace him with an ACTUAL "middling to lesser" QB, and 6-10 would have been their CEILING for the last ten years, rather than the low point it was last season.

[Nick Pappageorgio]

At the end of the day, in 2018 CLE and DET had the exact same number of 1st and 2nd Rd picks on their rosters that their team drafted. Exact same number, regardless of what GM's did or how poorly those teams did. That's all I'm saying, CLE last year was in no better position to succeed than the Lions were, and when you look at it the real barrier to them getting better was HUE and nothing but HUE. HUE was the HC equivalent of Matt Millen, he didn't have an earthly idea what he was doing.

I believe that this is the course offering at DWT/Gonz university:

Partial Qualifiers 210- An introduction to partially qualifying statements that will let you ignore reality and certain facts.....this will enable you to continue to claim you're right in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

The original statement was about Mayfield having better talent on the field to work with than Stafford does...how this was changed to only players drafted by and still on the team IDK. So you either don't understand the topic of conversation or you've significantly altered the criteria of evaluation to suit your needs (to always never be wrong).