Official Detroit Pistons thread

[chemiclord]

Why not? What was stopping Weaver from identifying swing shooters or defenders? What compelled him to stash away big men with no range and no defense?

Seems like THAT is the core of the problem. Weaver got his #1 pick, and has assembled a mess around him, to the point that we still have no idea what the fuck we have.

[froot loops]

Agree on the big men with no range. That is his biggest fault. But the biggest weapons you have to build around Cade Cunningham is the draft picks. But if you keep on drafting 5th, it isn't much different than SVG drafting 7-8th. They got a bunch of kids in a true mans league. It's very rare to have MVP candidates at age 22. Have you said what they should have drafted after Cade? To me it looks like they took BPA and it hasn't panned out yet.

Weaver needs to go, that has been clear since the Wiseman trade. But it's bigger than Weaver, the whole organization bought into the same tanking scheme that the Sixers deployed and everyone was right on board with it.

[El Axe]

I don't mind the Stewart trade handcuffing the ability to trade because I don't think they should be trading further 1st round picks. I don't like Weaver and think he should be gone but the problem is bigger than him. When you go through something like The Process the problem is you gut your team so you don't win games so you increase the ping pong balls. The end result is you have a team designed to lose, it's very hard to win after 3 or 4 years of that.. Everyone was on board for this. I'm not even sure they weren't tanking last year even though Weaver said they were going to be competitive. The coach managed the team like a team trying to tank and last year's off season looked like a team trying to tank.

The end result of all of this is they have Cade, 3 young guys who have shown flashes and the third straight #5 pick. Good luck with that.

As you just said, they have Cade, 3 young guys who have shown flashes and the upcoming #5 pick. If you squint, there is a resemblance to the Timberwolves and the Cavaliers when they had a very young core and needed to add a legit veteran.

What did they do? They traded future firsts and picked up all-NBA level talents still in their primes and now they are both final-four contenders with young cores.

Because of the Stewart trade, the Pistons can't do that.

[froot loops]

The T Wolves won two lotteries and got KAT and Ant.

The young guys who have shown flashes can't shoot and its unclear if they will ever fit together correctly. Most likely those young guys might eventually thrive but it may be three years from now and maybe on different teams. What we saw from the 23/24 season is giving heavy minutes to all of these young guys was a disaster and probably won't be better in the next season or two.

The only true fit with Cade is Duren, but the ceiling in him might be lower than his counting stats show. He'll have impressive rebounding and scoring games and he's a great lob threat for Cade. But his defense is shit on a stick and he can't shoot. He's an Andre Drummond type that can hit free throws but is probably less imposing defensively than Drummond was (he wasn't).

Cade is the complete player of the bunch but he still has questions. His defense is also shit. Also, he hasn't played a full season in his three seasons. We don't know how much of that is fragility and how much is the franchise's addiction to tanking. The shin surgery last season was decided on pretty quickly during a obvious tanking effort. And they quit playing him at the end of this season for knee maintenance. The knee strain was a direct result of running him into the ground to break the losing streak, but it seemed like they were using it as an excuse to ensure the worst record.

[chemiclord]

The issue with Drummond is that while you can get away with one big man with no real offensive range is that the Pistons have like four, and they right now are all clogging the lane making it difficult to impossible for the slasher-types they have on the perimeter.

You can do one or the other, but both together don't work, and I'd argue that's the problem. Weaver has brought in all these redundant pieces with no clue how they all are supposed to fit together. No process is going to work if the person managing that process makes incredibly stupid decisions.

[froot loops]

That is correct, but it's very hard to find stretch 4s and 5s and also have rim protection. It's why they keep in trying to force Stewart as a 4. That's where losing the lottery hurts. Paolo, Chet and Wemby were much better fits. When you are picking 5 they are picking BPA as they should, but these players don't really fit.

[chemiclord]

And I'd disagree with that. If you need a shooter or if you need a wing, then you get those players, whether is #5, #15, or #30. "BPA" doesn't do fuck all if you wind up with three of the same type of player. This isn't like the NFL where going 2 or 3 deep is fine (and in some cases recommended). There's only 5 guys on the court at any given time.

[froot loops]

Ok then, who should they have drafted instead?

[froot loops]

For me, I had no problem with drafting Ivey and Thompson. I was in favor of Keegan Murray but the Kings took him at #4. But neither Thompson or Ivey play the same position as Cade.

[chemiclord]

Ok then, who should they have drafted instead?

How about you finally give us the grand plan that no one else in the NBA has been able to figure out?

What is a team that can't draw free agents supposed to do to change their fortunes other than tank?

[ghandi]

For me, I had no problem with drafting Ivey and Thompson. I was in favor of Keegan Murray but the Kings took him at #4. But neither Thompson or Ivey play the same position as Cade.

That was a great pick by Sac...Keegan Murray would have been a great fit in Detroit.

[froot loops]

I said their grand plan was to gut the team and tank, it has been plainly obvious and everybody was seemingly on board. In the second half of the season they start finding injuries and are playing G League players at the end. I even think last year was a continuation of that strategy even if they claim they were trying to win. The Harris trade was not of a part of any strategy to win more games.. I think they draft what is the best player available in their mind and it is normally the consensus. I don't have any problem with them drafting Thompson and Ivey apparently you do. Maybe you can enlighten us on who you thought they should draft.

You also think they should have ceased this tanking after they got Cade Cunningham. That they should have built around him and stopped this endless years of tanking. If that was truly the case, did you ever express it here? Because I did complain about the last two off-seasons because they traded for bad contracts. When you do that, you are not trying to build, you are trying to accumulate more ping pong balls.

When you are doing that, the only valid pieces you are trying to build around Cade Cunningham is the draft picks. If you think tanking is worth it, this is your plan.

[chemiclord]

I asked for YOUR plan, since apparently the only options are "tank forever" and "???".

So, come on Froot, what is the "???" that you keep alluding to but never elaborate on. I promise I won't steal your grand strategy and try to become a GM.

And I HAVE been saying for a while that if Weaver can't put together a decent squad with 2 or 3 top 5 picks, then the problem is more him than anything else. There's no excuse to be playing the lottery this long.

[froot loops]

It's not my plan, it's their plan. If you think tanking for 3 or 4 years like The Process in Philly was a viable plan, you can't turn around and complain that they didn't build around Cade when they get boned in the lottery.

If you thought they should have tried to build around Cade after his rookie season and stop tanking, we agree. But you were
conspicuously silent about that aspect at the time. I on the other hand was not silent about that. You can forage through this thread for my thoughts on it.

But I didn't have a problem with them drafting Thompson and Ivey. In my plan I would have drafted Keegan Murray over Ivey, but Sacramento made that academic. Murray was older and more developed and could shoot.That would have helped them with Cade. Jad and I believe Whitley were pro Ivey and anti-Murray. Who did you think they should have drafted?

[froot loops]

My big idea last year was to sign Austin Reaves to a big offer sheet and force the Lakers to match.

My big idea this year is to sign Hartenstein to a big contract that the Knicks can't give him. That's not an original idea, but he would help anchor the defense, but that also means trading Stewart or Duren