Official Detroit Pistons thread

[CGVT]

The Physics of Shooting
Nothing But NetInformation revealed by Dr. John Fontanella in his book The Physics of Basketball shows that launch speed is determined by the amount of force you apply to get the ball to the goal. How much force is necessary is determined by your distance from the goal. For example, when shooting a 2-foot shot, you only need a launch speed of approximately 10 miles per hour. For a 3-point shot you need a launch speed of approximately 18 miles per hour. More force (speed) is necessary for longer shots to get the ball to the basket.

Launch angle is simply the angle at which you launch the basketball towards the basket. For our discussion here, having your arm straight out and parallel to the floor is a 0-degree angle. Having your arm straight up pointing to the ceiling is a 90-degree angle. Halfway in-between these two extremes would be a 45-degree angle. Your distance from the goal and the release height of your shot determine the ideal launch angle for a slow moving ball at the rim. The closer you are to the basket, the higher your launch angle will be. A two-foot shot released from a height of 8-feet, requires a launch angle of 72 degrees to produce the slowest moving ball at the rim. As you move away from the basket, your launch angle decreases, a free throw is approximately 51 degrees and a 3-point shot is approximately 45-degrees.

The release height of the basketball shot is largely determined by the height of the player shooting. According to Professor John Fontanella, the ideal angles from the free throw line are as follows:

5’4″ player should launch the ball at a 52.2 degree angle
5’8″ player should launch the ball at a 51.5 degree angle
6’0″ player should launch the ball at a 50.8 degree angle
6’4″ player should launch the ball at a 50.1 degree angle
6’8″ player should launch the ball at a 49.4 degree angle
7’0″ player should launch the ball at a 48.7 degree angle
These angles produce the slowest moving ball as it approaches the rim, which gives you a shooter’s touch.

HIGHER ARC = BIGGER TARGET

Shooting is an optimization process. Complicating this matter is the fact that your target area increases with a higher launch angle. The higher the arc, the larger the target. In theory it makes sense to shoot with an exaggerated high arc, thereby increasing the size of your target. However, higher arc requires more force at the time of release to propel the basketball higher, which makes it more difficult to control the shot. In addition, the shot will no longer be a ‘soft shot’ because gravity increases the speed of the ball as it falls. For each 0.1 second the basketball falls through the air, it increases in speed. The faster the ball is moving, the greater the collision with the rim.

Conversely, with a low arc you also need to utilize more force to get the basketball to the rim. A low launch angle requires more initial speed upon release to get the ball to the basket.

[Kstat]

The Physics of Shooting
Nothing But NetInformation revealed by Dr. John Fontanella in his book The Physics of Basketball shows that launch speed is determined by the amount of force you apply to get the ball to the goal. How much force is necessary is determined by your distance from the goal. For example, when shooting a 2-foot shot, you only need a launch speed of approximately 10 miles per hour. For a 3-point shot you need a launch speed of approximately 18 miles per hour. More force (speed) is necessary for longer shots to get the ball to the basket.

Launch angle is simply the angle at which you launch the basketball towards the basket. For our discussion here, having your arm straight out and parallel to the floor is a 0-degree angle. Having your arm straight up pointing to the ceiling is a 90-degree angle. Halfway in-between these two extremes would be a 45-degree angle. Your distance from the goal and the release height of your shot determine the ideal launch angle for a slow moving ball at the rim. The closer you are to the basket, the higher your launch angle will be. A two-foot shot released from a height of 8-feet, requires a launch angle of 72 degrees to produce the slowest moving ball at the rim. As you move away from the basket, your launch angle decreases, a free throw is approximately 51 degrees amnd a 3-point shot is approximately 45-degrees.

The release height of the basketball shot is largely determined by the height of the player shooting. According to Professor John Fontanella, the ideal angles from the free throw line are as follows:

5’4″ player should launch the ball at a 52.2 degree angle
5’8″ player should launch the ball at a 51.5 degree angle
6’0″ player should launch the ball at a 50.8 degree angle
6’4″ player should launch the ball at a 50.1 degree angle
6’8″ player should launch the ball at a 49.4 degree angle
7’0″ player should launch the ball at a 48.7 degree angle
These angles produce the slowest moving ball as it approaches the rim, which gives you a shooter’s touch.

HIGHER ARC = BIGGER TARGET

Shooting is an optimization process. Complicating this matter is the fact that your target area increases with a higher launch angle. The higher the arc, the larger the target. In theory it makes sense to shoot with an exaggerated high arc, thereby increasing the size of your target. However, higher arc requires more force at the time of release to propel the basketball higher, which makes it more difficult to control the shot. In addition, the shot will no longer be a ‘soft shot’ because gravity increases the speed of the ball as it falls. For each 0.1 second the basketball falls through the air, it increases in speed. The faster the ball is moving, the greater the collision with the rim.

Conversely, with a low arc you also need to utilize more force to get the basketball to the rim. A low launch angle requires more initial speed upon release to get the ball to the basket.

Its a catch-22. For the ball to get to the rim at a slower speed requires a much lower arc, but the higher arc provides a much better downward angle.

A 5'10" person can easily get a consistently soft landing at a generous angle. A 7'0" person cannot.

There are excellent tall ft shooters but they are skilled shooters anyway, and their approaches are actually very different. Laimbeer was an 84% shooter and he opted for the line drive approach with a softer landing. Dirk is an 88% shooter and he shoots moonballs every time that drop to the rim like meteors. Of course he swishes 2/3 of them so it doesn't matter.

[CGVT]

It is a trade off. The higher arc gives a bigger target but is harder to control and lands harder, although I doubt that the 3.5 degree difference, (that is a 5'4 vice 7' player. The difference between a 6'4" and 7' is just over a degree) gives either the taller or shorter shooter much if, any advantage. Not enough to say release point is a factor worth mentioning.

However, higher arc requires more force at the time of release to propel the basketball higher, which makes it more difficult to control the shot. In addition, the shot will no longer be a ‘soft shot’ because gravity increases the speed of the ball as it falls. For each 0.1 second the basketball falls through the air, it increases in speed. The faster the ball is moving, the greater the collision with the rim.

[froot loops]

The first study you posted gave a big weight to the 4 degrees of difference.

[CGVT]

Not really. He's talking about the angle of minimum velocity

The low and moderate skill groups missed the angle of
minimum velocity by 3? and the high skill group missed by 4?.
Though the projection characteristics of the high skill group
appear to be distinquished from the low and moderate skill groups,
the variability within each group was high

[CGVT]

BTW, I'm not saying these guys should all be shouting 80% by any means. I think there are some physical problems that a 7 footer has to deal with when shooting free throws, but shooting the ball from closer to the rim than a shorter guy is negligible.

[chemiclord]

I think the simplest explanation is that most big men really aren't ever taught how to be shooters. Shaq, for example, was garbage outside of 10' regardless of where he was on the floor.

Release point and height don't seem to bother a 7-footer like Dirk Nowitzki (who hits his FTs at a career 88% clip). Didn't bother Kareem too much either (who was a more than respectable 72%, iirc). The 6'10" Kevin Love is a career 81% FT shooter.

Ya know another big man who didn't have much trouble at the foul line? Brooky knows him. Bill Laimbeer. 6'11" and a career 79% foul shooter.

But all of those big men can (and could)... ya know... shoot the ball. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that Drummond can't shoot free throws well. He can't hit ANY 15' shot with anything approaching regularity to begin with.

[CGVT]

Where you have to wonder, though, is when you see reports of terrible in-game FT shooters shooting hundreds of FTs in practice and making a high percentage and then shooting 40% in games. WTF happens?

And most of these guys that can't shoot FTs have terrible form an mechanics. You would think that it could be fixed, but with some guys it just doesn't happen. Wilt shot from behind the stripe, off to the side, off to the other side, two steps back, underhand, one handed and who the hell know how else and he never got any better.

[froot loops]

I think hand size has something to do with it.

Laimbeer was a great free throw shooter for a big guy but he was not a guy to emulate. He had a flat shot, it was precise and it had to be because there was no margin for error.

I think it is simple, very few guards have this problem because if they did they wouldn't progress. It is not like that for big guys, if you are near 7 foot, you have a high probability of being a professional basketball player. I read somewhere that at any time there are something like 300 people on earth that size at a professional players age. Andre Drummond was a bench warmer for a long time because he couldn't play well. It took him awhile to be able to do anything.

[CGVT]

I think hand size has something to do with it.

Laimbeer was a great free throw shooter for a big guy but he was not a guy to emulate. He had a flat shot, it was precise and it had to be because there was no margin for error.

I think it is simple, very few guards have this problem because if they did they wouldn't progress. It is not like that for big guys, if you are near 7 foot, you have a high probability of being a professional basketball player. I read somewhere that at any time there are something like 300 people on earth that size at a professional players age. Andre Drummond was a bench warmer for a long time because he couldn't play well. It took him awhile to be able to do anything.

This^^^

[jaadam4]

Can the playoffs start already? This shit is boring.

[CGVT]

I think it is simple, very few guards have this problem because if they did they wouldn't progress. It is not like that for big guys, if you are near 7 foot, you have a high probability of being a professional basketball player. I read somewhere that at any time there are something like 300 people on earth that size at a professional players age. Andre Drummond was a bench warmer for a long time because he couldn't play well. It took him awhile to be able to do anything.

Think there is a lot of truth to this. Quite a few years ago, I got a hold of some court-side seats (second row) in Seattle. Being at that level made the players all human again... Mark Eaton was playing for the Sonics and I remember thinking that he was just a big stiff-that great big guy that everybody had on their high school team that just couldn't play, but played anyway because he was so big. If he had been 6'4", hell, 6'8", there was no way he would have been playing in the NBA.

Of course there are NBA big guys that are athletic freaks too, but the only thing that made Eaton a freak was his size.

[Masspartan]

Froot hit ... hand size makes a difference. It's much easier to shoot a basketball than shooting a volleyball or softball for instance. At least to me.

[ghandi]

Hand size is just an excuse...There's been several 7 footers that were very good FT shooters...Drummond never has been and most likely never will be even mediocre at it....We are just going to have to deal with it like we did when Ben Wallace was playing.

[Tom]

It has to be embarrassing to Drummond that Baynes has been playing key minutes down the stretch.