Official Detroit Pistons thread

[Futureshock]

That's with my thinking. One of the beat writers posted a link stating who would be available in 2021 and you just go down the list. Not coming, not coming, not coming, not coming, etc...

If they didn't flock to the Knicks, wth you think is pining to go play at the Joe?

[jaadam4]

Westbrook is about the best you could ever hope for in that scenario.

Not really. In the day of over spending and luxury tax its more common than you think. We got Griffin for pennies taking his contract. D'Angelo Russell was just had for basically nothing. Westbrook's contract is 170 mil over the next 4 years.

[froot loops]

Cap space is always useful for trades. Detroit isn't a true free agent destination spot but very few places are. Make a list of true free agent destinations and it isn't long. It was Miami and the Lakers and the Lakers have struck out until last year.

The New York Knicks have only ever been a free agent destination in their own mind. Its never been able to attract players.

Westbrook is the best you could hope for with Blake Griffin still in quasi-prime.

[Forsh]

Not really. In the day of over spending and luxury tax its more common than you think. We got Griffin for pennies taking his contract. D'Angelo Russell was just had for basically nothing. Westbrook's contract is 170 mil over the next 4 years.

[chemiclord]

Cap space is always useful for trades. Detroit isn't a true free agent destination spot but very few places are. Make a list of true free agent destinations and it isn't long. It was Miami and the Lakers and the Lakers have struck out until last year.

I think the argument should be, "all things being equal, Detroit is very far down the list of desirable FA spots," which would be absolutely true. But there are ton of factors that come into play. Whenever a Detroit team has had something that looks like a plan in place, a promising core of talent, and a willingness to actually spend money, they've never had any trouble appealing to free agents.

That FAs aren't willing to sign here is more a condemnation of the people in charge than it is the area itself.

[Futureshock]

True story

[froot loops]

I think the important point being all things being equal. In almost every situation that really doesn't apply. If you make a list of every marquee free agent that changed teams most of them changed teams for other reasons. Kawhi wanted to go to LA but he was from LA, he probably was still was going to stay in Toronto until the Clippers sold the farm to get Paul George. One of the problem the Lakers have faced over the years courting free agents is they buy into their own hype about being a free agent destination, it cost them during the Kawhi pursuit and the Durant pursuit.

If you are the Pistons or most of the other teams, if you have a ton of cap space and nothing else and the Lakers are in a same situation you are likely to lose the free agent battle for that top free agent of the class. That's the all things being equal. But that's not a scenario worth bellyaching over, because if you had a top star and cap space you are in a better position than the free agent destination with nothing but cap space.

At one point Orlando was supposedly a top free agent destination because of the weather and no state tax. They snagged Grant Hill and T-Mac. They almost got Duncan as well. Nowadays they can hardly get anyone to take their money. It's really the one time all things being equal applied

The Warriors epic run is probably finished, it is worth noting that it didn't start because of snagging a top free agent. They did sign Iguodola but Golden State was considered a backwater NBA town with great fans and nothing else. They got Durant in free agency due to a quirk in the salary cap and because they were a great team.

[froot loops]

Building on top of the point chemiclord made about the indictment people in charge. That is totally true, look no further than the Nets. Sure they are in Brooklyn so there is the New York factor but their front office disarray has always prevented them from being able to attract free agents. But the current administration is different, it is very competent and it allowed them to be able to attract Durant and Irving.

I actually think the front office in charge of the Pistons deserves the benefit of doubt right now. Gores might screw things up overall but Stefanski, Tellem and Rose seem to know what they are doing. They have had some decent moves so far. They are a step up from SVG and late era Joe D so far, but it's early no real chance to make big moves.

[Futureshock]

Report: Apparent mutual interest between Russell Westbrook, Miami Heat
Westbrook has four-years, $170 million still owed him, and the Heat are hard capped. This is no easy deal to put together.

[Futureshock]

BRUCE BROWNSF, DETROIT PISTONS
Bruce Brown posted a 14-point, 10-rebound double-double during Monday's Summer League win over the Pacers, adding six assists, two steals and one triple over 27 minutes.

[Futureshock]

He has D but his 3 needs a lot of work.

[chemiclord]

Building on top of the point chemiclord made about the indictment people in charge. That is totally true, look no further than the Nets. Sure they are in Brooklyn so there is the New York factor but their front office disarray has always prevented them from being able to attract free agents. But the current administration is different, it is very competent and it allowed them to be able to attract Durant and Irving.

I actually think the front office in charge of the Pistons deserves the benefit of doubt right now. Gores might screw things up overall but Stefanski, Tellem and Rose seem to know what they are doing. They have had some decent moves so far. They are a step up from SVG and late era Joe D so far, but it's early no real chance to make big moves.

I think it's time we as a fanbase admit that late-era Joe D is simply early-era Joe D without the unprecedented blind luck that happened to strike multiple times pretty much all at once. We like to think that the 7's he hit at the start were excellent keen managing, and that the repeated snake eyes in the later years were somehow a sign that he had lost his edge... but nah, he was simply playing craps the entire time. He was always gambling, and NEVER really had any coherent plan.

And you are right that the current management is hard to gauge because they really haven't had the cap space or opportunity to really make their case to any free agents. You could point to the fact that Griffin seems to have bought in, but you could also argue that it's easy to look like you're on board when you really don't have much choice in the matter. The question for me is will Gores be willing to accept having to take a step back if it means taking a step forward, or is he going to insist his management do whatever they can to tread water? History, and Gores's own stated mission, suggest the latter... and that's not going to work in either the short OR the long term.

[Cody_Russell]

LOVE to see Miami trade for Westbrook just to see what would happen. Jimmy Butler + Russell Westbrook... hmmmm.
Scary thought of what Sam Presti could do with all of the potential future assets in OKC. 3-4 years from now, watch out.

Bone made his debut yesterday and was solid. Pistons have a pretty good Summer League squad, even without Doumbouya.

[froot loops]

I think it's time we as a fanbase admit that late-era Joe D is simply early-era Joe D without the unprecedented blind luck that happened to strike multiple times pretty much all at once. We like to think that the 7's he hit at the start were excellent keen managing, and that the repeated snake eyes in the later years were somehow a sign that he had lost his edge... but nah, he was simply playing craps the entire time. He was always gambling, and NEVER really had any coherent plan.

And you are right that the current management is hard to gauge because they really haven't had the cap space or opportunity to really make their case to any free agents. You could point to the fact that Griffin seems to have bought in, but you could also argue that it's easy to look like you're on board when you really don't have much choice in the matter. The question for me is will Gores be willing to accept having to take a step back if it means taking a step forward, or is he going to insist his management do whatever they can to tread water? History, and Gores's own stated mission, suggest the latter... and that's not going to work in either the short OR the long term.

I think the game passed Joe D by during his tenure. He correctly predicted after the Pistons crested and the league implemented the offensive rules that going strictly by defense-first philosophy was no longer a tenable concept but he didn't actually know how the offensive explosion was going to happen and he guessed wrong. The death of William Davidson didn't help matters as the alleged succession plan was a dead letter. But nobody made him spend big on Charlie V, Ben Gordon or Josh Smith. When you would hear him talk or another guy like Isiah Thomas speak they were always heavily emphasized by big men. The old school maxim that you can't win being jumpshooting team was strong, the last decade has so obliterated that maxim I'm sure the youngsters out there don't even know it was a thing.

Joe D did an excellent job clearing cap and making trades early in his career, he definitely got lucky with the Wallace and Billups signings but they were good risks to take. Ultimately in professional sports a very large of success is pure effing luck masquerading as keen managing. We are all fooled by randomness. Steve Kerr was not the first choice of the Warriors, SVG was the #1 choice but he wanted full control of player personnel and he chose the Pistons because he got it. The league is drastically different because of that decision, the Warriors were incredibly lucky for that. The keen managing on the Warriors part was having Jerry West around to campaign to keep Klay instead of trading for Kevin Love. That was head scratching at the time but very prescient in hindsight.

As far as the current front office, from what I can tell Arn Tellem has been a very good presence behind the scenes. He has helped with some of the pickups, specifically Ellington and Rose. Ellington was at first thought to be going to a playoff contender but chose the Pistons due to his Tellem connection and Rose the same thing. Rose and Stefanski are kind of unknowns, but Stefanski has sounded more wired in than SVG ever did and Rose has a decent Spurs pedigree.

[Futureshock]

Bone made his debut yesterday and was solid. Pistons have a pretty good Summer League squad, even without Doumbouya.

Svi looked good and seems to have a good stroke and ball movement. Brown got a little exposed as the game should have been put away early but he chose to be as erratic as Indy was. When they started hitting 3s they just coasted away. That Jarrod Uthoff is a guy that has made a positive impression. Moves well and makes the open shot. Range beyond the line. I like him too.