Official Detroit Pistons thread

[Futureshock]

I first starting watching the NBA circa 1972 and Kareem was my favorite player over Bing and Lanier. In NBA history, if my team has time for one shot with the championship on the line, I go Kareem and his sky hook. I choose him over 23. As unstoppable a shot as there has ever been. Loved Clyde Frazier too. That was a great era.

[Kstat]

Unstoppable...sorta. Wilt in his twilight was still able to block Kareem's sky hook. Kareem played in a sweet spot where he was literally the only all-time great playing his position until moses Malone started to break out in the early 80's, which is also when kareem stopped winning MVPs. Who were his top rivals during the 70's? Lanier? Cowens? Please.

The one exception was when Bill Walton managed to keep himself healthy for about one calender year, but for that one year he spanked Kareem pretty hard.

[fontes91]

Compared to what era? Now? I disagree. Thurmond, Walton, Wilt, Unseld, Gilmore, Reed, Lanier, Cowens. And I know I'm forgetting some.

Just looked it up - he averaged 21+ points per game every year through the age of 38. At 38 he averaged 23.4. Yeah, pretty much meh.

[Kstat]

Thurmond fell off in the early 70's. Wilt and Reed were both gone by the early 70's. Unseld tore his knee up around that time and was never the same.

Walton would have been an excellent argument if he hadn't been made out of glass. I mentioned him already.

From 1973 to probably 1980, kareem really had no one to challenge him. Lanier and Cowens were both really good centers, just not good enough to be in Kareem's class.

And yes, I'm well aware Kareem was a top-5 center and top-10 player overall. That's my point. To him Cowens and Lanier weren't good enough to seriously challenge him. Walton was, but he couldn't stay healthy.

The 1960's had a lot of elite centers. So did the 1980's and the 1990's. The 1970's was pretty much Kareem terrorizing a league that was lacking in the talent department because of the ABA (and crack, but mostly the ABA).

[fontes91]

In reading your posts what I see is both stating Kareem was great, but also diminishing his achievement due to lack of competition. I agree there were stronger eras for centers but that's not his fault. It's not to say he wouldn't have dominated greater talent had it been around. He averaged 23.4 points per game at age 38. At age 37 he averaged 22 and 8 and was Finals MVP. That was in 1985.

[Kstat]

Yeah, his competition was diminished during the prime of his career. You think he would have won 6 MVPs if Julius Erving wasn't playing for the Virginia Squires in his prime? Or Rick Barry, one of the top 5 small forwards ever? The ABA sapped a big chunk of the top-shelf talent from the NBA for the better part of the decade, and nose candy sapped another chunk at the tail end.

And yes, he remained relatively effective through most of the 80's, but he wasn't the only game in town anymore. His rebounding fell off dramatically and his shot blocking followed suit soon after. His offense maintained because he had Magic and a number of all-stars around him to set him up and occupy the defense. He could shoot the sky hook at 27, 37, 47 or 57. All he needed was teammates to space the floor and someone to get him the ball. The rest of his game left him much earlier.

[nhwbrooklyn]

What about if he played with Jordan?

[Kstat]

No idea what that's supposed to mean. Jordan would have loved playing with kareem. It drove him bonkers that the best offensive center he ever played with was Bill Cartwright.

[Futureshock]

Thurmond fell off in the early 70's. Wilt and Reed were both gone by the early 70's. Unseld tore his knee up around that time and was never the same.

Walton would have been an excellent argument if he hadn't been made out of glass. I mentioned him already.

From 1973 to probably 1980, kareem really had no one to challenge him. Lanier and Cowens were both really good centers, just not good enough to be in Kareem's class.

And yes, I'm well aware Kareem was a top-5 center and top-10 player overall. That's my point. To him Cowens and Lanier weren't good enough to seriously challenge him. Walton was, but he couldn't stay healthy.

The 1960's had a lot of elite centers. So did the 1980's and the 1990's. The 1970's was pretty much Kareem terrorizing a league that was lacking in the talent department because of the ABA (and crack, but mostly the ABA).

The 90s wasn't the best era for shooting guards either so I guess that Jordan guy isn't all that either.

In his prime Kareem was un guardable by anyone not named Chaimberlain. In fact, Kareem infuriated Wilt because he TOOK the mantle from him. He hated Kareem with a passion and I remember those two going at it really good with Kareem winning most.

You can't diminish a man's worth because noone else can better him. That's a foolish arguement.

pANDs That Aaron Rogers guy can't be much better than Stafford. He gets to play the Lions twice a year and Stafford never gets to play them.

[froot loops]

The 90's were the era for shooting guards. This latest era, not so much.

[jaadam4]

There was something posted on ESPN a few weeks back regarding who would have the best all time team. The Lakers or Bulls.

While Jordan was the best player IMO, I think the Bulls would be hard pressed to beat a team with Magic, Kareem, Kobe, Shaq etc. The Pistons would have a pretty damned good team too.

Isiah
Joe D
Grant Hill
Rodman
Sheed or Big Ben?

Its tough even coming up with our starting lineup.

[Kstat]

The 90s wasn't the best era for shooting guards either so I guess that Jordan guy isn't all that either.

In his prime Kareem was un guardable by anyone not named Chaimberlain. In fact, Kareem infuriated Wilt because he TOOK the mantle from him. He hated Kareem with a passion and I remember those two going at it really good with Kareem winning most.

You can't diminish a man's worth because noone else can better him. That's a foolish arguement.

pANDs That Aaron Rogers guy can't be much better than Stafford. He gets to play the Lions twice a year and Stafford never gets to play them.

The QB comparison is stupid. QBs don't defend each other.

And the 90's were the deepest era for SGs ever. Clyde Drexler was one of the top 5 SGs of all time. There were still people wondering if he was secretly better than Jordan heading into the 1992 Finals. Then Jordan sodomized him on national TV two quarters into game one and no one asked that question ever again.

The 70's were the best era for....cocaine, I guess? It was the least competitive in the NBA, for sure.

Kareem never had another guy like that to measure himself against in his prime unless you include old man Wilt and a healthy Bill Walton for one yer, and Walton was easily better than Kareem for that period.

[Futureshock]

There was something posted on ESPN a few weeks back regarding who would have the best all time team. The Lakers or Bulls.

While Jordan was the best player IMO, I think the Bulls would be hard pressed to beat a team with Magic, Kareem, Kobe, Shaq etc. The Pistons would have a pretty damned good team too.

Isiah
Joe D
Grant Hill
Rodman
Sheed or Big Ben?

Its tough even coming up with our starting lineup.

Dave Bing would replace Joe on my team

[guitarjack87]

http://ballislife.com/stanley-johnson-2015-summer-league-highlights-best-rookie-in-the-summer-league/

Stanimal's summer league highlights.

Yes, I know Summer League means nothing. Still some good stuff though.

[ghandi]

The 90's were the era for shooting guards. This latest era, not so much.

Now its the point guards that do all the shooting.....