Official Detroit Pistons thread

[froot loops]

I probably wasn't clear, Dumars was pretty good free agency and trades up to McDyess, after that he was the drizzling shits. In drafting it seems like he was the opposite, he drafted a lot of useful players after Darko, but most of them never did much for the Pistons.

[*JD*]

Can someone point me to the Pistons Thread?

http://detroitpistonsforum.com

[froot loops]

Pistons re-sign Joel Anthony 2 years 5 million dollars per Vince Ellis.

[Futureshock]

Well, part of the problem is unlike in the NFL where fans (mistakenly and stupidly) think the QB is the only thing that matters... in the NBA, having that superstar really IS the only thing that matters.

When you only have 10 players in play at any given time, the impact one player has is exponentially larger, especially when that one player is head and shoulders above everyone else on the court.

Without that one player, your ceiling is pretty much a low seed and getting your ass handed to you in the first round. Sure... it's POSSIBLE to put together a "complete" team like Golden State did, or Atlanta is trying to do, or Detroit did for several years... but even then you still have to kinda get lucky (and in the Pistons case getting lucky with a Free Agent signing AND two trades that brought Wallce, Hamilton, and Billups into the core of that team).

When you're a mid-market team with pretty much no ability to lure any Free Agent worth a shit... I dunno, it sure seems like the only way out IS to tank and try the lottery (both literally and figuratively).

Again, may I remind you Pistons fans have been pretty much having this discussion for the last five years:

"Damn! We're so luck that [insert player here] dropped to us! We didn't even have to tank for him! Awesome!"

(Detroit finishes in the 8-9 slot in the lottery... again...)

"Uhhh... hmmm... well... DAMN! Look at this guy dropping into our laps! Lucky us!"

THIS is the NBAs #1 problem IMO. Why the He ll should the best players get the best whistle? If they are so great, show it. Tooooooooooo much bias in the Association.

That's why the ref who bet on games was so successful. HE knew how much that played into results and the players that the other refs liked and dis-liked. He stated as much and the world just ate up the bs story from the association that he was a renegade. Uh yeah.

95% of the fans have no shot at a championship at the beginning of the season. Why suffer through 80 games of that?

At least in the NFL that number is 33%. MLB is probably 66%.

[Kstat]

The Pistons had no shot at a championship at the beginning of the 2003-2004 season. No one gave the Warriors a shot at the beginning of this season. If you say you saw them coming in October, you're lying through your teeth.

[Forsh]

I probably wasn't clear, Dumars was pretty good free agency and trades up to McDyess, after that he was the drizzling shits. In drafting it seems like he was the opposite, he drafted a lot of useful players after Darko, but most of them never did much for the Pistons.

True. His first 4 drafts were 3 pieces of shit (Mateen, Rodney, Darko) with a couple good later 1st rounders (Tay, Delfino) and a great 2nd rounder in Memo. All his trades were gold. It all turned around after that.

[chemiclord]

I agree you need a superstar or two to win a championship in the NBA, unless you find a perfect storm of chemistry and talent a la the '04 Pistons. Couple problems with tanking though -- a true superstar comes along every several years. There are only a handful of those players in the NBA. You can tank 5 straight years and not land a superstar, instead building a culture of losing that can be hard to shake. Also, there is no guarantee you'll get a top pick if you tank. Hello NY knicks.

And again... I ask you... what is the alternative?

I mean, there's even FEWER examples of building these "complete teams" and changing your fortunes then there is getting lucky and hitting the lottery to change your fortunes.

Say you're Philly or Detroit. You have less than zero chance of landing an impact player in FA. Why would those players go to you when they can get a max deal from anywhere else with higher visibility and/or more glitz and glamour?

It's all a matter of how you're gonna get lucky. Either by finding 3 or 4 guys that everyone else overlooked and forming a solid unit all around... or by finding that one player that transcends the game. Neither is particularly good odds.

I dunno, I can't fault teams for thinking their best chance is to tank rather than sit locked in Purgatory for a decade trying to find the scraps everyone else is missing.

[Kstat]

this is akin to saying "I heard of a guy that once hit the powerball and won $50 million. Therefore, I'm going to invest heavily in lottery tickets....."

I mean, screw trying to invest slowly and smartly, that's too boring. Just lazily dump your money into the lottery and hope for the best!

[chemiclord]

this is akin to saying "I heard of a guy that once hit the powerball and won $50 million. Therefore, I'm going to invest heavily in lottery tickets....."

I mean, screw trying to invest slowly and smartly, that's too boring. Just lazily dump your money into the lottery and hope for the best!

It's a little more like having to take out a loan to get into the stock market, but the money you're making is just paying off the interest on that loan. You're still not going anywhere, and you're still just hoping that you'll get lucky and find the right set of stocks that will actually allow you to start making money.

Otherwise, you're spinning in that hamster wheel for years and years going nowhere fast. A lot of people would look on that situation and think, "Yeah... fuck that too."

[Kstat]

ah, the hampster wheel myth.... just ask the hawks, pacers and warriors, who never hit rock bottom, stuck around in the middle for a while, drafted/traded/signed smartly and became championship contenders shortly after. One of them actually won the damn thing.

You know why NBA teams in the middle go nowhere fast? Because they have crappy management and use your argument and the average joe's ignorance as a crutch for their ineptitude.

Joe Dumars is the prime example why tanking is stupid. He signed a ton of role players and despite blowing his lottery picks completely he put together a championship team with no top-20 player n 4 years. But yeah, let's keep pretending that investing in the lottery is a better strategy than trying to build a winning organization.

[chemiclord]

ah, the hampster wheel myth.... just ask the hawks, pacers and warriors, who never hit rock bottom, stuck around in the middle for a while, drafted/traded/signed smartly and became championship contenders shortly after. One of them actually won the damn thing.

You know why NBA teams in the middle go nowhere fast? Because they have crappy management and use your argument and the average joe's ignorance as a crutch for their ineptitude.

The Hawks and Warriors were "stuck around in the middle" for what... thirty some odd years before finally breaking out? I'd love to see you try and sell your fanbase on THAT rebuilding plan.

The Pacers are probably a much better example of what you're looking for, but that's pretty much the only example of that method being sustainable over a reasonable period of time.

[Kstat]

The one guy GSW tanked to get was their 6th or 7th best player last season, Their 3rd best player was drafted in the second round. They succeeded because they out-scouted everyone else in the draft.

The Hawks put a 60-win team together out of thin air because they spent their money way better in free agency. They were the #8 a seed a year ago and jumped to #1 this year with some mid level signings and better health.

[Forsh]

The one guy GSW tanked to get was their 6th or 7th best player last season, Their 3rd best player was drafted in the second round. They succeeded because they out-scouted everyone else in the draft.

The Hawks put a 60-win team together out of thin air because they spent their money way better in free agency. They were the #8 a seed a year ago and jumped to #1 this year with some mid level signings and better health.

GS didn't really out scout anybody on Draymond ... they just had an earlier 2nd round pick than teams like the Pistons

[nhwbrooklyn]

Nice to see Stanley outclass just about everyone he was on the court with in SL.

[nhwbrooklyn]

The one guy GSW tanked to get was their 6th or 7th best player last season, Their 3rd best player was drafted in the second round. They succeeded because they out-scouted everyone else in the draft.

The Hawks put a 60-win team together out of thin air because they spent their money way better in free agency. They were the #8 a seed a year ago and jumped to #1 this year with some mid level signings and better health.

I wanted the pistons to go big after Teague that year he was up. He's just a real good solid PG that plays two ways.