Off Topic: Soccer and NASCAR

[froot loops]

The MLS versus Europe is something the next coach needs to have a better grip on. They got the worst of both worlds, Klinsmann would shun some players in MLS for any European player that had some claim to American citizenship. Then you get Arena who was the opposite.

That's an issue, but you should be able to get out even with that 17 out of 25 ratio. For a lot of those teams in CONCACAF, the US is the big league. Most of those teams have very little in the way of players overseas.

But the point he made is a good one. The next manager has got to be able to figure a better system to get these players international exposure. They have to find some center backs, the loss of Brooks should not be so catastrophic.

[iam416]

Good discussion. Very much agree re just playing. South American kids just play soccer. US kids most often just play basketball. I think the thing about travel ball is that it becomes the ONLY venue to play.

My son plays baseball (travel, yay) and hoops (we'll see, but he's short). Getting him outside to just play with me or neighbor kids is a win. I even rent a gym and run open gym for kids his age that can modestly play. You can watch the kids get better and try things -- especially the innate hoops stuff you only learn from playing like moving without the ball and seeing the court. Informal play. It's the foundation and I don't think it's their for US soccer.

As for MLS, I've always thought that the US would "arrive" when US players earn consistent minutes in the world's best leagues. MLS, IMO, is no better than the English Championship. Froot's beloved Leeds United could do well even without the likes of Al Smith, Kewel and Bowyer. I can't imagine England picking it's national team from the Championship (sure, it'd still be good enough to qualify out of CONCACAF, but still)...

[Panoptes]

Played soccer in youth leagues as a kid, as I got older I stuck to baseball. My friends and I played a lot of pickup games of baseball, basketball and street hockey. Actually, the kids in my subdivision organized a street hockey league with teams from all over the subdivision.

Whiffle Ball was king

[Marko69]

MLS, IMO, is no better than the English Championship.

100% agreed. I think that opinion would be shared by most people.

[Malto Marko]

It's all about $$'s.

Soccer (or Football, if you will) on a worldwide basis has the Corporate sponsors that allow World Class players to be among the highest paid athletes in the world. Same thing happens on this side of the pond with American Football.

The athletes will train and work at making what their skill level will allow, and follow the money stream.

The intangable is, where, is the money directed to coddling the athletes along?;-) Heh, heh.

[Kstat]

I don't know why anyone expects anything out of American soccer. Nobody here really cares about trying to build anything other than a mediocre money pit designed to shake down yuppie parents. Every other American youth sport it's kill or be killed. Youth soccer is a glorified pay to win system.

This honestly needed to happen. Maybe it needs to happen in 2022 too before meaningful changes take place. I get the vibe that too many people think this was a coaching failure and nothing more.

[froot loops]

Is MLS at Championship level?

[Marko69]

Is MLS at Championship level?

No. That was partly my point. Not even close in my opinion.

[Kstat]

And it will never be. Money and competition is better in Europe. It always will be.

Not that USA needs MLS to have a strong national team. It doesn't.

[NewOrleansLion]

I'm not steeped in soccer knowledge, but I agree with Kstat (what?!?) that it seems this needed to happen. The USMNT has been like the Bengals -- just making the playoffs and never really threatening once there.

[Marko69]

And it will never be. Money and competition is better in Europe. It always will be.

Yes, and just to be clear as many of you claim to not have a good knowledge of the soccer, ......, the English Championship is the SECOND tier of English soccer. The EPL is the league above. The English Championship is a very good league indeed.

Which means -------> League One I'm afraid......, NY Red Bulls vs Shrewsbury Town! That's an away win for sure!

[froot loops]

Overhauling the whole system is unrealistic. You have to tweak the system, but some of the things like increasing club academies and improving the youth development system have been done, but the fruits of those benefits take awhile. The guys in their mid 20's to age 30 did not have that. The US does have a lot of players playing in Germany and England, but the promising ones are young. They talk about a lost generation, there are really only 3 guys worth anything in that age range from 23 to 30, Altidore, Bradley and Cameron.

Even saying that, there was no excuse for that performance. Warts and all the US produces enough players whether they are European based or MLS based to finish at worst 3rd in CONCACAF. They lost to a T and T roster that boasted of one player in a league of MLS caliber. They'll have a long time to figure it out, just don't hire a Charlatan like Klinsmann.

[chemiclord]

As for MLS, I've always thought that the US would "arrive" when US players earn consistent minutes in the world's best leagues. MLS, IMO, is no better than the English Championship. Froot's beloved Leeds United could do well even without the likes of Al Smith, Kewel and Bowyer. I can't imagine England picking it's national team from the Championship (sure, it'd still be good enough to qualify out of CONCACAF, but still)...

Leeds United would be an immediate dynasty in MLS. MLS teams would struggle in England's League One. That's how shitty American soccer is.

The problem is that the people who run the USSF is pretty much the same people who run MLS, and they insist on being tied together. That was the major point of contention with Klinsmann, who correctly identified MLS and it's level of competition as total puke garbage, and that MLS had no particular desire to improve on any score (which they didn't, and frankly still don't). Now, make no mistake, he didn't have an answer to that problem at all. But he at the very least correctly identified the problem.

[froot loops]

Yeah Klinsmann was like the commercial where the guy is the Dental Monitor, not Dentist. He can see you have a cavity but he can't do anything about it. Plus he sucked as a manager, you would be hard pressed to guess what his preferred formation was and come up with some sort of set lineup.

He was the Office Max Easy Button to try to solve all the ills with a big check but unwilling to do other things.

[Marko69]

It's quite sad when certain players become shite managers. Jurgen Klinsmann as a player?? ...... Italia 90, West Germany v Yugoslavia? The Jurgen & Lothar show! What a game that was. Klinsmann was awesome.