Off Topic: Soccer and NASCAR

[Fraquar]

I'm leaning towards the U.S. will never seriously compete on the International level until they get a Professional league that can attract the best players. The reality is every other nation in the world has a style of play and their players are groomed to support that. The U.S. ships their guys overseas to play in teams/leagues where the style of play can't be supported properly by the majority of the players that inevitably fill out the squad from the U.S. league.

Soccer is a team game, and as little time as these guys get to prepare for these tournaments they essentially rely on 2 things. 1) A style of play all players are used to. 2) Parking the bus and hoping you survive (which is what the best U.S. success has been based on in recent history).

[Fraquar]

Well, Pulisic is 17. He's young and going to make mistakes - I understand that. Here's what I think is the good thing with him:

a) He was where he should have been when the ball was moving in attacking situations
b) He was unfortunate that Dempsey felt he had to be the hero and swing wildly with his weak (left) foot

Dempsey, I understand. He's supposed to be the hero, blah, blah. For fucks sake just look and see you got a RIGHT footed player playing LEFT wing where he's supposed to be cued up perfectly.....

[Marko69]

It's weird with the explosion of soccer over the last two decades, you'd think the talent level would improve a little. Instead the team has been reliant on basically two sets of players. They had the golden generation of 97 and the older players now. The US Soccer development program started in 97 and that was their best class.

I'll tell you exactly what the problem is. The MLS is slowly being filled with Europeans/ Africans/ Latin Anericans........, leaving unused real Americans and you are becoming shit as a result. Well......, just not making progress.

Scotland were the only UK nation at Argentina 78, and qualified for 5 World Cups in a row. Then UEFA scrapped the three foreigner rule and the Old Firm spent big, lucky if there was a single Scottish player in their squad. The international team suffered.

In Americas case....., in a country with a population of over 300 million, can only really blame Gridiron, baseball, basketball, ice hockey etc etc, for your soccer team being pants.

[chemiclord]

I'll tell you exactly what the problem is. The MLS is slowly being filled with Europeans/ Africans/ Latin Anericans........, leaving unused real Americans and you are becoming shit as a result. Well......, just not making progress.

Scotland were the only UK nation at Argentina 78, and qualified for 5 World Cups in a row. Then UEFA scrapped the three foreigner rule and the Old Firm spent big, lucky if there was a single Scottish player in their squad. The international team suffered.

In Americas case....., in a country with a population of over 300 million, can only really blame Gridiron, baseball, basketball, ice hockey etc etc, for your soccer team being pants.

Kinda. It's A factor, though not the only one. It's more of that pretty much ALL the "prime prospects" for athletic prowess are pushed or inclined to the "big three" sports. Even though only a handful make it, by the time that's sussed itself out, it's really too late for them to consider a radically different sport to specialize in.

Gotta remember, a lot of the elite soccer players (like any other elite athlete) is playing that sport almost as soon as they can run. If children aren't picking up soccer really early, the chances of them developing elite skills by the time they hit their peak is really low.

I think we'll start to see an upswing in the overall talent level of the U.S. at soccer within the next ten years. More parents are pushing their young ones away from football, and soccer is looking to be the one that benefits.

However, that might not matter too much because the U.S. Soccer management structure is pretty awful. MLS, for example, is probably the absolute WORST at developing home grown talent, and has snarled quite angrily at the USMNT for cutting into their market share. The two sides have not been particularly friendly towards each other.

[froot loops]

My point is less about the MLS and who gets pushed where. Truthfully I find the athletic argument to be a little overblown.

I'm saying in 20 years, the talent level hasn't gotten any better. 20 years ago, the MLS was just beginning. The teams of the 90s and early 2000s were much better and there was a hell of a lot less opportunity. The exposure, opportunity and participation has exploded and USMNT is still relying on Germans with American citizenship.

[SeaRaySparty]

Danica was in the booth today for the XFINITY race at Pocono,
:smile:that was worth a look.

[chemiclord]

My point is less about the MLS and who gets pushed where. Truthfully I find the athletic argument to be a little overblown.

I'm saying in 20 years, the talent level hasn't gotten any better. 20 years ago, the MLS was just beginning. The teams of the 90s and early 2000s were much better and there was a hell of a lot less opportunity. The exposure, opportunity and participation has exploded and USMNT is still relying on Germans with American citizenship.

Well, yes, because the talent and the structure to bring out that talent still haven't manifested. The athletic argument is really only Part I of a very long, complex problem that infects pretty much every level of US soccer.

[Marko69]

If US soccer team ever do anything remotely "big", ie, win Copa, or go far in a World Cup, with Germans with American citizenship....,, it'll not be recognised by many.

Need to get the American "athletes" into the soccer from primary school age. Michigan people can contribute by telling them the Lions suck, UofM suck, Spartans are awesome, but go play soccer for a change.

[CGVT]

Soccer: Sport of the future. Always has been. Always will be.

[Malto Marko]

Youth soccer in this area of the Country is huge. The problem I see with it is the younger players are using it to gain full boats to College and that is the top of their aspirations. Most colleges treat soccer as an also-ran sport, not a premier sport that produces stars.

Professional soccer is starting to take off here but, it has long been poo poohed as a boring and non money making sport. My Uncle and Cousins have proven the money making part wrong but the deep pocketed investors still shy away.

Gilbert and Gores are an exception to that and their unlikely partnership may change the attitude in the next couple of years.

[froot loops]

The big money investors aren't shying away though. The MLS is attracting them, but the reason they are attracting it is the league is a much better model for making money without the risk of some of the international leagues. The majority of players make peanuts. That league only goes for foreign players on a retirement tour.

At the youth level I have to imagine a lot more kids play soccer than football. Really, football isn't where you need to start playing at an early age.

[Marko69]

You need to tell the Gerrard's and Lampards to fk off and do it yourselves........, hide the kids pitching mitts, bats etc, take down that fking BBALL hoop from above the garage door....... and let the diamonds in the rough shine through.

[froot loops]

For the most part, those guys are not the problem with the MLS. They are bringing in fans, I don't know about Lampard and Garrard but a guy like Beckham brought a lot of value to the league even if he was at the end. I think what Fraquar is saying is that the league needs to be better. To get better you need to go after top level talent and pay it. There are plenty of American players in the MLS.

As far as getting kids to play the sport, I believe youth participation outstrips both baseball and basketball. You see a lot more soccer fields being used than baseball fields.
It has been that way for a long time, it hasn't translated to top talent.

[Fraquar]

Actually, the U.S. needs to develop talent. We are a nation of 300 million people afterall.

Unfortunately there is a difference between getting kids to play Soccer and having an infrastructure that teaches them the skills needed in the game at the early ages. It may take another 1-2 generations before the parents of the kids are actually people who played the game and understand it and can guide their kids appropriately. Where coaches actually played the game and know how to teach young kids core skills correctly.

U.S. will likely never adopt the model used in the European countries, where teams set up academies and families send their kids there for 2 educations - classroom and Soccer - both done by professionals in their crafts.

[FVD]

I read an article a while back, I believe it was on Deadspin, about an EPL team that was looking to establish soccer academies in the United States. I wanna say it was Everton or Southhampton but something like that could only benefit the USMNT in the future.