At what point will all you assholes just believe.

[chemiclord]

What part of "don't always" was unclear?

[Malto Marko]

What part of "don't always" was unclear?

If you win a game on the final possession, you must have let it get there, no?

Don't always to me, means, never did.

I would argue they have and have won doing so.

Good teams do that.

If the Lions were not denied the opportunity to do the same, who could say they would not have been able to realize this opportunity and make it the defining moment of the game, or season?

[chemiclord]

If you win a game on the final possession, you must have let it get there, no?

Don't always to me, means, never did.

I would argue they have and have won doing so.

Good teams do that.

If the Lions were not denied the opportunity to do the same, who could say they would not have been able to realize this opportunity and make it the defining moment of the game, or season?

If you want to be intentionally obtuse, I suppose you could twist the obvious intent of the statement to mean that.

Or, you could use context and actual definitions (rather than inferred ones) to know I was speaking of the Lions irritating tendency for every game to boil down to tight affairs that hinge on one or two plays (and referee calls) at the end of the games.

When was the last time the Lions just throttled an opponent and never let up? Now how many times did they jump out to an early lead and let the opponent off the mat? How many times have they stumbled out of the gate, and fell short after a furious comeback?

Yes, the Packers and Steelers and Patriots and all good teams have their close games. And sometimes those close games lead themselves to getting dicked by the refs (see also the "Fail Mary"). But they also often have games where they take the refs out of it, and no bad call on the final play could affect the final outcome. The Packers, for example, have had all of one game so far that was won by one possession (and that one possession would have needed to be a TD and 2-point conversion just to tie). Every other game has been decided by more than one possession.

How many times have the Lions done that?

If you don't play a nail-biter every week like the Lions do, you reduce the number of opportunities for the refs to fuck up, and as a result you get dicked over less. It's pretty simple to understand if you want to.

Of course, you don't want to, because that ruins your narrative that the refs are out to get the Lions specifically.

[The Ken]

Are you trying to say the Lions put themselves in a bad situation each and every week, and if they learned to take the ref's out of the game by scoring a TD before the end of the game on offense we wouldn't be committing mental masterbation a rule that none of us knew existed including the ref's, Pete Carroll, Jim Caldwell, 69,005 fans at the game and all 106 players dressed by both teams?

[Panoptes]

If you win a game on the final possession, you must have let it get there, no?

Don't always to me, means, never did.

I would argue they have and have won doing so.

Good teams do that.

If the Lions were not denied the opportunity to do the same, who could say they would not have been able to realize this opportunity and make it the defining moment of the game, or season?

Win 42 to 10 sometime. That will get the refs off your tail.

[Malto Marko]

If you don't play a nail-biter every week like the Lions do, you reduce the number of opportunities for the refs to fuck up, and as a result you get dicked over less. It's pretty simple to understand if you want to.

Of course, you don't want to, because that ruins your narrative that the refs are out to get the Lions specifically.

No, I do not have a narrative or an agenda. I only watch the games, hope for the best but get screwed like the rest.

[chemiclord]

Are you trying to say the Lions put themselves in a bad situation each and every week, and if they learned to take the ref's out of the game by scoring a TD before the end of the game on offense we wouldn't be committing mental masterbation a rule that none of us knew existed including the ref's, Pete Carroll, Jim Caldwell, 69,005 fans at the game and all 106 players dressed by both teams?

It means if the Lions had a better fucking team with better fucking coaching and a better fucking front office that supplied said better fucking coaches with said better fucking team that the Lions wouldn't be in so many fucking nailbiters that have the potential to end with an assfucking at the hands of incompetent officials.

But I suspect you, like MM here, know exactly what I mean, and are also being intentionally obtuse.

[unknown lions fan]

Your point was devoid of any meaning, just own up to it. If you want to say that the Lions get screwed on calls because they suck in perpetuity, and refs don't give any credit to teams that suck, fine.

But if it's because "they always have close games and lose them to a call" whereas "these other teams don't always have close games," that's just silly.

[chemiclord]

Your point was devoid of any meaning, just own up to it. If you want to say that the Lions get screwed on calls because they suck in perpetuity, and refs don't give any credit to teams that suck, fine.

But if it's because "they always have close games and lose them to a call" whereas "these other teams don't always have close games," that's just silly.

Bullshit. It has plenty of meaning if you want to accept it.

The refs are universally terrible. There's no, "Oh... it's just the Lions" that goes on in their heads. They just suck. Give them more opportunities to make sucky calls that impact games, and you're going to get more sucky calls that impact games.

There's two ways to solve the problem. Get better refs (which the NFL is clearly loathe to do), or get a better team that dampens their ability to fuck you over.

But it's so much better for Lions fans to believe, "Oh, it's our reputation! It's because we've been so bad for so long that we don't get the benefit of the doubt!"

Because that's convenient. And it's bullshit.

[dwt1]

For the record, of the three teams mentioned, GB/NE/Pitt are a combined, 9-2, not one of their wins were on the final drive, not even close to being the final drive.

And looking at NE last year, of their 15 wins, only the Super Bowl win came on their final drive.

[dwt1]

For the record, of the three teams mentioned, GB/NE/Pitt are a combined 9-2, not one of their wins came on the final drive, not even close to being the final drive.

And looking at NE last year, of their 15 wins, only the Super Bowl win came on their final drive.

[froot loops]

I appreciate the sentiment that the Lions should make it so the the ref's decisions can't affect an outcome. They definitely shouldn't leave it to the last drive. But saying that is meaningless drivel, it is wasting everyone's time and if that is all you can say, begone. Because saying that is like giving the panhandler on the corner a pick axe and a rope and commanding him to climb Mt. Everest.

[dsred]

It's not like those teams weren't getting favourable calls the entire game or anything.

Let's see how far we can move these goalposts.

I agree with Chemi, sorta. The Lions' philosophy with Schwartz and now Caldwell has been to play conservative so you can keep it close and win at the end. For the Lions, that philosophy is flawed because as sure as shit the NFL is going to job you if you're beating one of the glamour teams... because well, you're the Lions.

Caldwell needs to realize he's coaching the LIONS and act accordingly.

[chemiclord]

I appreciate the sentiment that the Lions should make it so the the ref's decisions can't affect an outcome. They definitely shouldn't leave it to the last drive. But saying that is meaningless drivel, it is wasting everyone's time and if that is all you can say, begone. Because saying that is like giving the panhandler on the corner a pick axe and a rope and commanding him to climb Mt. Everest.

It's no more a waste of time than sobbing and conjuring conspiracy theories that the NFL has certain franchises they want to win and are subtly (or not so subtly) stacking the deck to make sure those franchises win.

I dunno, but if that was the case, if the NFL actually WAS actively handing down orders to make sure that certain franchises get the shaft that someone would have found evidence of that beyond the anecdotal.

The NFL is actually pretty damn horrid at keeping things under wraps when people actually start looking (see also, the head of officials walking out of the Cowboys' party bus), and I find it very, very hard to believe that no one has ever looked to see if there's fire to go along with that smoke.

In truth, you could go to fans of every single team in the NFL, and all of them would be able to conjure a list just like the one Lions fans love to weep bitterly over. And that's because the refs suck. Most of them are part-timers who likely aren't able to keep up with that tome of a rulebook that is always changing every damn year, and are enabled by a league office that goes out of their way to make up reasons to never have to admit that there's fundamental problems with the way the NFL hires, trains, and manages them.

To use your analogy, this is more listening to a panhandler whine about wanting to reach the top of the mountain, and the panhandler getting angry at you when you tell him to go climb it then.

[dwt1]

It's no more a waste of time than sobbing and conjuring conspiracy theories that the NFL has certain franchises they want to win and are subtly (or not so subtly) stacking the deck to make sure those franchises win.

I dunno, but if that was the case, if the NFL actually WAS actively handing down orders to make sure that certain franchises get the shaft that someone would have found evidence of that beyond the anecdotal.

The NFL is actually pretty damn horrid at keeping things under wraps when people actually start looking (see also, the head of officials walking out of the Cowboys' party bus), and I find it very, very hard to believe that no one has ever looked to see if there's fire to go along with that smoke.

In truth, you could go to fans of every single team in the NFL, and all of them would be able to conjure a list just like the one Lions fans love to weep bitterly over. And that's because the refs suck. Most of them are part-timers who likely aren't able to keep up with that tome of a rulebook that are always changing every damn year, and are enabled by a league office that goes out of their way to make up reasons to never have to admit that there's fundamental problems with the way the NFL hires, trains, and manages them.

To use your analogy, this is more listening to a panhandler whine about wanting to reach the top of the mountain, and the panhandler getting angry at you when you tell him to go climb it then.

uhmmm......ALL of them are part timers.

Oh, and - do you read what you write?