At what point will all you assholes just believe.

[Michigan_Saintsfan]

Is this the kind of ish that went on in the guitarjack thread?

[chemiclord]

Well, I guess the question I have is:

"Believe what?"

That they're a good team? Already do.

That they are "playoff caliber?" Already do.

That they are "a contender?" That's where I start to have problems, largely because their record against other legitimate contenders over the last three years isn't just bad; it's DISMAL. I went back and looked at their record against top 3 teams in the conference... 0-7 (0-8 if you consider Green Bay with Rodgers this year to be a top 3 team). Until they beat the best, I have a hard time believing they belong in the discussion.

I mean, it's great that they're back in the playoff mix. But I remember an entire decade where they were a frequent playoff team... and they were routinely bounced in the opening round. No one was happy with those results then. Why should I be happy with it now?

[Malto Marko]

Well, I guess the question I have is:

"Believe what?"

That they're a good team? Already do.

That they are "playoff caliber?" Already do.

That they are "a contender?" That's where I start to have problems, largely because their record against other legitimate contenders over the last three years isn't just bad; it's DISMAL. I went back and looked at their record against top 3 teams in the conference... 0-7 (0-8 if you consider Green Bay with Rodgers this year to be a top 3 team). Until they beat the best, I have a hard time believing they belong in the discussion.

I mean, it's great that they're back in the playoff mix. But I remember an entire decade where they were a frequent playoff team... and they were routinely bounced in the opening round. No one was happy with those results then. Why should I be happy with it now?

Because Millen and Moronwheg set the bar to where you should be happy just to make the playoffs, not expect to advance.

......oh wait. There are some too young to remember the playoff fodder days of the '90's.

[froot loops]

It isn't just Millen, the Lions have only been to the playoffs like 10 times in 45 years. Hell yeah we should be happy to get to the playoffs, you have to get to the playoffs minimally to be considered a contender.

But people keep on bringing up the 90s.

1. The 90s had much better teams than the NFL of now. Back then if you were 1 or 2 seed, you were the contenders. Getting in the playoffs as a 4 to 6 seed was a stacked deck against you. Nowadays its much easier to win because the top teams aren't that much better.

2. The Lions of the 90s had to storm back in the season to get into the playoffs. Currently the Lions are taking care of business with a flash.

[SnowMeiser]

I believe that the Lions have the talent to win more games than they loose (just for you MM).

To me it is a feeling. When the Lions have the ball going for the go ahead score late in the game I think ok, when are they going to throw the interception, be called for a holding penalty, etc to kill the game winning drive. When the other team has the ball driving for the game tying/winning score, I keep waiting for the PF penalty, the pass interference penalty, anything to keep the other teams drive going.

The Lions did that against Dallas by scoring the game winning touchdown and they did it against the Bears by stopping them.

When the Lions can do this consistently without me being on the edge of my seat waiting for someone to make a mistake, then I will believe.

Ask yourselves this. When the Lions have the ball, do you believe that more often than not they are going to get that go ahead score or make a dumb mistake along the way? When they are on defense, do you feel comfortable that they are going to stop the go ahead score from the other team?

I am not conviced yet. The Dallas game and the Chicago game are convincing me though.

This upcoming game against Pittsburgh is a perfect example. They should go in and win this game. They definitely have the talent to win this game. I would like to think that they will. Win against the teams you should win against, that is all I am looking for. Consistency.

[guitarjack87]

Ask yourselves this. When the Lions have the ball, do you believe that more often than not they are going to get that go ahead score or make a dumb mistake along the way? When they are on defense, do you feel comfortable that they are going to stop the go ahead score from the other team?

I believe when the offense has the ball. The defense still scares me a bit, but on the road, in a hostile environment, they made the play that mattered. twice. Two weeks, two wins, one where the offense were the collective heros, and one where the defense was.

[dsred]

Well, I guess the question I have is:

I mean, it's great that they're back in the playoff mix. But I remember an entire decade where they were a frequent playoff team... and they were routinely bounced in the opening round. No one was happy with those results then. Why should I be happy with it now?

Because Millen and Moronwheg set the bar to where you should be happy just to make the playoffs, not expect to advance.

......oh wait. There are some too young to remember the playoff fodder days of the '90's.

These posts sum it up. You might be too young to remember, Guitarjerk (said tongue in cheek of course), but for many of us it's been there, done that.

They need to take the next step. Win this year, win in the playoffs, and then build on that next year and for years to come.

[Newbomb Turk]

The defense still scares me a bit, but on the road, in a hostile environment.

[Sharkbait]

A Win in green bay would be a good start.

[LightninBoy]

For me, I'll believe when the Lions prove themselves as a true contender. I think that's what most of the "non believers" are essentially saying too.

There are many ways to define a contender. But in my opinion a decent definition is a team that makes it past the wild card round of the playoffs. That means the team is either 1st or 2nd seed (and earned a bye) or wins a playoff game.

So that's what I think the Lions need to do to convert all non-believers. Now whether I predict they will succeed at this is another matter. Like Chemi and others, I think they are just a bit short of being a solid contender. If I start seeing the offense adopt a bit more of a killer instinct and begin to assert its will against the defenses, I'll begin to believe they can be a contender.

[LionsFanInJapan]

Oh my God...you're Charlie!

[Marko69]

My daughter (and now granddaughter) have "My little Ponies"..... And I gotta say, those ones ^^^ looked wired off their faces. A couple of machiattos too many I think.

[Tony G]

speaking of wired and machiattos, here's some people that have a very different way of enjoying their coffee

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/florida-couple-addicted-coffee-enemas/story?id=18433235

[Topweasel]

My daughter (and now granddaughter) have "My little Ponies"..... And I gotta say, those ones ^^^ looked wired off their faces. A couple of machiattos too many I think.

I think they are from Charlie the Unicorn which is a web series.

[Marko69]

Charlie the Unicorn? Never heard of it..... But looks like the creators just ripped off the My Little Pony idea..... But gave them wired off their tits looks.

Tony, that link ain't opening on my phone for some reason....., check that our later.