U of M thread (in the Lions Forum) :)

[Jamie H]

I think you are living a lie

And I think you are living with a preconceived narritive on what Michigan fans believe in and can't accept that your narritive is dead wrong.

When you bring up all of these stats on Michigan getting bids, you sound very proud of it.

I was merely pointing out that there is very little different about the selection process of the BcS system than the old bowl system. You claimed that under the old system Michigan wouldn't have gone to a BcS level bowl. But since the Big Ten allowed teams to go to bowls other than the Rose Bowl, every 2-loss or better Michigan team has either played in the Rose Bowl or been invited to another BcS level bowl. That's 37 years now. My point was Michigan's invitation to the Sugar this year is not a surprise, nor is it any different than the Bowl system has ever worked. A 2-loss Michigan team has always been a hugely attactive team for the BcS level bowls to select, and that is pretty much the only variable in play.

That says nothing about the quality/fairness/correctness of the BcS or bowl system. It is merely a statement of fact about how the systems have worked. Anyone surprised that a 2-loss Michigan team is in a BcS bowl has been bured under a rock for 37 years.

[Jamie H]

TCU and Boise are non BcS conference teams.

Thats the one thing that is really weird. Once they established the BCS it pretty much elevated the 6 conferences, but two of those conferences are the ACC and the Big East. They don't deserve to be elevated. Back in the 80's the power conferences were much, much better but they hadn't discovered the joys of cupcakes. Look at Va Tech's schedule, its terrible. Why do they get the advantage over Boise or TCU. The ACC is not a good football conference.

The Big East has been decimated since they were given the auto-bid. They clearly don't deserve it anymore, at least no more than a conference like the Mountain West deserves it.

The ACC is a bigger question. When they added Miami, Virginia Tech and BC, people expected them to become a power-conference, maybe even challenging the SEC. Instead, Miami and Virginia Tech have sunk to the ACC's level and FSU has fallen off a cliff at the same time. Dunno what to tell you there.

[froot loops]

It's arguable, sure. As far as the other teams being perhaps more "deserving" than Michigan I mean. But are you really that concerned about those teams being so wronged? Highly doubt it. You wouldn't have even wasted your breath on it if it was a team other than Michigan. You're pissed....because it's Michigan. That's it.

Actually the whole conversation started when your boy WhoDean said they got Alabama right but Can't we all agree there should be a playoff?

I said there will never be a playoff as long as Alabama/Michigan get the spoils of the BCS. They are the power players and as long as they get this, there won't be any changes.

I don't believe Alabama deserves to be in the national championship. In 2006 I argued vehemently that Michigan did deserve a rematch. They argued that you have to win your conference to play for the national championship. You Michigans fans don't even care, show a little backbone, get a little outraged. Is anyone in Ann Arbor going to speak up about these contradictions?

[froot loops]

Last year MSU had a much better right to be pissed, we won the Big Ten. We didn't get to the BCS and the Big Ten lobbied for the NCAA to let cheaters play for OSU in the Sugar Bowl.

[Jamie H]

WhoDean lives in down south in and is constantly asserting the "obvious" superiority of SEC football in the Michigan forum. Using his opinon as a basis for what other Michigan fans are thinking is a mistake. The LSU-Alabama rematch is a joke. Having the rematch just automatically assumes the SEC is significantly superior to every other conference, because it just hands them the title without having to even earn it. It looks even sillier when you realize that Alabama only played 4 teams all season that ended with winning records.

[Jamie H]

Last year MSU had a much better right to be pissed, we won the Big Ten. We didn't get to the BCS and the Big Ten lobbied for the NCAA to let cheaters play for OSU in the Sugar Bowl.

Yah, I would have thought that was obvious. How many 1-loss BcS conference teams have been left out of the BcS? It can't be very many.

OSU should have been banned from the postseason and MSU should have been the Big Ten BcS representative. But Delany was too busy kissing Tressel's ass to see what was really going on.

[froot loops]

If there is no outrage, there will be no change. This stuff will go on forever. Its like Michigan fans are so satisfied with getting a Sugar Bowl bid over MSU they can't be bothered with the giant contradictions from 2006. That shit got changed in 2006 because there was outrage in the South. But you guys are taking it without vaseline.

Maybe I'm suffering from chemiclord hyperbole, but if I think the silence from Ann Arbor is an endorsemnt of the BCS.

[Jamie H]

If you want a team to be mad at, be mad at Oklahoma State. They have made almost no fuss about getting bent over.

See, this is what the SEC depends on. They raise holy hell over every issue, because they have no shame and don't care if they look like lying hypocrits. And they know when push comes to shove, people will back them because public opinion always swings to whoever yells the loudest. Then when the tables are turned, they know that others won't want to stay above the fray and not look like big whiners and complainers. So in the end, the SEC always wins out, because they don't care if they look like jackasses as long as they get their way, and they know that other people DO care about how they look.

You see the same crap in politics all the time. The politicians who want to keep their hands clean get creamed by the assholes hpocrits who are willing to lie and fling much everywhere.

[Jamie H]

If there is no outrage, there will be no change. This stuff will go on forever. Its like Michigan fans are so satisfied with getting a Sugar Bowl bid over MSU they can't be bothered with the giant contradictions from 2006. That shit got changed in 2006 because there was outrage in the South. But you guys are taking it without vaseline.

Maybe I'm suffering from chemiclord hyperbole, but if I think the silence from Ann Arbor is an endorsemnt of the BCS.

I don't get it. You want Michigan fans to raise hell for Oklahoma State?? Shouldn't Oklahoma State fans be doing that?

As long as the SEC has both CBS and ESPN pimping them out and telling everyone that whatever benefits the SEC is what should happen, it makes little difference what Big Ten fans say or do. Michigan complaining about the rematch this year would just be painted as sour grapes. There is no way it would do any good.

[Niffla]

If there is no outrage, there will be no change. This stuff will go on forever. Its like Michigan fans are so satisfied with getting a Sugar Bowl bid over MSU they can't be bothered with the giant contradictions from 2006. That shit got changed in 2006 because there was outrage in the South. But you guys are taking it without vaseline.

Maybe I'm suffering from chemiclord hyperbole, but if I think the silence from Ann Arbor is an endorsemnt of the BCS.

Ya know what, I'm with you on this. Has nothing to do with Sugar Bowl "satisfaction", though. As I said before I could have really given 2 shits about validating the season with a Sugar Bowl trip. Michigan validated the season by going 10-2 and notching some wins this year that we would have never even dreamed of with RR at the helm.

But yes, the outrage should have been deafening. It would have had to come from the right voices, though. It didn't happen. That, in hindsight, is disappointing.

[Niffla]

As long as the SEC has both CBS and ESPN pimping them out and telling everyone that whatever benefits the SEC is what should happen, it makes little difference what Big Ten fans say or do.

Yeah, no doubt. I would have liked a more public lashing out -- not so much in defending Oklahoma State, but keeping Alabama out of the title game.

But there's no question it would have just fell on deaf ears. Still would have liked it, however.

[froot loops]

OK State's passivity is not good either, but they aren't a power player. And while they did get screwed by the system they only got screwed by the numbers. There is no past history like Michigan has. Michigan is a power player and they are OK with the system. They are OK with what happened in 2006. Make a little noise, it doesn't take much to point out what they said.

[Jamie H]

I would have liked it too. But as I said earlier, it is pointless. The SEC is willing to out-whine, out-yell, out-lie and out-cheat everyone, and they don't give a shit what they look like doing so. It is very hard to win a public relations battle with people like that. It's like going to war with people who aren't afraid of dying.

[Jamie H]

But yes, the outrage should have been deafening. It would have had to come from the right voices, though. It didn't happen.

It needed to come from the CONFERENCE, not from Michigan. It needed to come from Delany. But he DOES support the BcS. You want to blame someone in the Big Ten? Blame Delany, not Michigan. And don't tell me Michigan and Delany are in this togther--Delany hates Michigan and the feeling is quite mutual. Has been ever since Bo called him names back in the 80's.

As for Dave Brandon, his first and last love is making money, which anyone who has watched us in our clown suits this year would have realized. So I don't think he really cares about how the title game is determined as long as Michigan makes a lot of money.

[froot loops]

I don't get it. You want Michigan fans to raise hell for Oklahoma State?? Shouldn't Oklahoma State fans be doing that?

As long as the SEC has both CBS and ESPN pimping them out and telling everyone that whatever benefits the SEC is what should happen, it makes little difference what Big Ten fans say or do. Michigan complaining about the rematch this year would just be painted as sour grapes. There is no way it would do any good.

Michigan fans should be loudly bitching about the 2006 fiasco. Why would you care if it is painted as sour grapes? You got wronged, speak up. And if you take the attitude that "There is no way it would do any good", then there is no way the BCS will ever change.

It doesn't have be all the fans, isn't their anyone at Michigan who can use google to print the quotes? It's like Winston Smith is at ESPN, AnnArbor.com, the freep, detnews