U of M thread (in the Lions Forum) :)

[SeattleLionsFan]

Froot is right. That defense underachieved.

[tin mad dog]

The D wasn't so great 2 years ago but they got punished more because the O (when it wasn't busy turning it over) was a 3 and out machine.

Zoltan Mesko had 80 punts in 2008, as compared to 52 last year.

[nhwbrooklyn]

I'd agree that the tackling was much improved than in years past. There were signs with improved LB play and Delmas running wild.

[tin mad dog]

Wrong losing team, nh.

[nhwbrooklyn]

I'll blame being on the road with the laptop....

Anyhow the big ten is getting positive attention this year. 3 teams in the top 10.

Hopefully MSU ... AND UofM surprise some people too.

[froot loops]

Explain to me how he personally made the defense abyssmal.

As far as I can remember Michigan teams never finished that far down in the team defensive standings. They gave up 48 to Illinois at home. Despite practicing against a spread offense, they looked like they had no clue how to stop one. Against physical teams they were consistently manhandled in the trenches. They lost to a bad Toledo team(one that was worse than Appalachian State) precisely because they couldn't figure out how to stop wide receiver Nick Moore, he had something like 19 catches in that game.

Maybe he doesn't emphasize defense, I have no idea. The defense under Rodriguez rarely looks any good. Most guys who like being called gurus on one side of the ball, generally neglect the other side of the ball. I will say this, Scott Schaefer got a somewhat raw deal, the defense got much worse when Rodriguez forced him to use that 3-3-5 defense. John L Smith tried that crap as well and his defense sucked in the big ten. You try that defense and you are basically conceding the line of scrimmage.

[Rocky Bleier]

Froot is right. That defense underachieved.

The question is why? I don't think it can be neatly explained away by blaming the arrival of Rich Rodriguez. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is how many times the offense turned the ball over on their half of the field that season, which led to a lot of quick points. The main image that lingers from that season is the back of Stevie Brown's jersey as he chased someone on their way to the end zone. He played better last year in a new position near the line of scrimmage. Why was he playing out of position? Coaching decision? Lack of depth? I also recall a lot of long runs due to poor tackling in the defensive backfield. Who gets the blame for that? Changing coaches and schemes every year has left them looking awfully confused too. Shafer apparently had problems with his assistants. That I do blame on Rodriguez since he brought those guys with him. One more bad season and Froot probably gets his wish: A new head coach in Ann Arbor. Three straight losing seasons and Jim Harbaugh's comments are forgotten and forgiven.

[chemiclord]

I think Froot's wish is that Rodriguez stays because he thinks Rich is U-M's John L. Smith.

[Rocky Bleier]

As much as he knocks RR I thought he wanted to see him go. :-) MSU fans should probably try to convince everyone that Rich is reall y a good coach given enough time.

[nhwbrooklyn]

The main thing I like about RR is that he doesn't lock down the states top players as tightly as Carr did giving MSU a better shot at improving.

But I would be happy if he did turn things around and won every game except 1. It's fun to tease about UofM's struggles but overall I want UofM to be good (and I want MSU to be better).

[Rocky Bleier]

The main thing I like about RR is that he doesn't lock down the states top players as tightly as Carr did giving MSU a better shot at improving.

But I would be happy if he did turn things around and won every game except 1. It's fun to tease about UofM's struggles but overall I want UofM to be good (and I want MSU to be better).

MSU has always gotten good players from the state. Southeastern players are being funnelled to MSU by Archie Collins. Max Bullough followed the family tradition. Perception isn't reality:

http://genuinelysarcastic.blogspot.com/

[nhwbrooklyn]

No? It felt like Carr took the lions share more than RR does.

You may be right.

[froot loops]

I think Froot's wish is that Rodriguez stays because he thinks Rich is U-M's John L. Smith.

Actually my latest discussion here was saying that my initial thought that Rodriguez was Michigan's version of John L Smith might have been slanderous to John L Smith. At least he had inital results with a very bad team that looked terrible for Bobby Williams. He couldn't recruit worth a darn and the bottom fell out, but he took miscast set of players and made a decent offense that could score in spurts against good teams.

[nhwbrooklyn]

Oh man Bobby Williams.... just be thankful UofM never went from a Nick Saban level coach to a Bobby Williams level coach.

[froot loops]

MSU has always gotten good players from the state. Southeastern players are being funnelled to MSU by Archie Collins. Max Bullough followed the family tradition. Perception isn't reality:

http://genuinelysarcastic.blogspot.com/

That article is hi-larious. For about 30 years Michigan got the best 5 players in the state right off the bat with very few exceptions. State was never in the discussion with the top players.

Of course you may want to spin it as some tale of Southeastern coaches funneling players. Well yeah, that was part of the Michigan dominance of the state recruiting. You had guys like Tom Mach and Thomas Wilcher funneling their players to Michigan.

Thats how it works Hoss. You may not like it now because there are a few more coaches sending them to State instead the rubber stamp to Michigan.