U of M thread (in the Lions Forum) :)

[Kstat]

Good. I hope these players get humiliated.

That they went to the free press and even the former players wont identify themselves... it speaks more to their lack of respect for their team and university that they would come out with this a week before the season. They want to hurt Rodriguez for personal reasons and they dont care who goes down with him.

[chemiclord]

Hey, the rules are in place so that these guys don't completely eschew their education for athletics. And those are the rules that every college should follow.

I can understand that.

But... if these fellows are really angry about the school supposedly breaking rules; then have the courage and leadership to say, "I don't think this is right, and if I have to sacrifice that to be part of the team, then this isn't a team I want to be a part of."

[Fraquar]

Hey, the rules are in place so that these guys don't completely eschew their education for athletics. And those are the rules that every college should follow.

I can understand that.

But... if these fellows are really angry about the school supposedly breaking rules; then have the courage and leadership to say, "I don't think this is right, and if I have to sacrifice that to be part of the team, then this isn't a team I want to be a part of."

Well, thats not an easy thing for a scholarship player to do - basically say "please take my scholarship because I disagree". For many a football scholarship is the only way they even get to college in the first place.

Thats a no win scenario, which kind of surprises me that players would even agree to talk about it even anonymously. In the end the rest of the players will find out who's doing the chirping anyway and they will deal with it accordingly.

[nhwbrooklyn]

Well, thats not an easy thing for a scholarship player to do - basically say "please take my scholarship because I disagree". For many a football scholarship is the only way they even get to college in the first place.

Thats a no win scenario, which kind of surprises me that players would even agree to talk about it even anonymously. In the end the rest of the players will find out who's doing the chirping anyway and they will deal with it accordingly.

Not exactly justice... and if it really is ruining their education and 95% of these guys are not going to the NFL.. that is BS and they should be whistle blowers. The university makes lots of money on these players so don't give me the free education argument. The deal is they get a scholarship for free education and UofM gets a top player for its highly profitable and reputation building football team. If it actually is so much more work (and I don't know if it is) where it affects their education negatively they are getting screwed.

Full disclosure: I am an MSU fan.

[nhwbrooklyn]

Also all the more reason college football players should get some sort of stipend (nothing massive, but something.. or they should leave school with a chunk of change). They make a ton of money for these schools and its clear they can't take full advantage of their scholarship.

[nhwbrooklyn]

Good. I hope these players get humiliated.

That they went to the free press and even the former players wont identify themselves... it speaks more to their lack of respect for their team and university that they would come out with this a week before the season. They want to hurt Rodriguez for personal reasons and they dont care who goes down with him.

First I'll bet it was only the ex players that had an axe to grind that actually went to the free press (instead of the free press coming to them)... the rest were probably family members approached by the free press and all they did was voice some reasonable concerns. To go after these guys would be really low class IMO. The freshman were ignorant to the rules, likely not their fault, and can't really be blamed either.

Not to mention you got all these powerful fuckers on the boards of these large institutions (MSU and UofM).. John L. Smith rubbed people at MSU the wrong way and had people trying to undermine him consistently (though as it turns out, correctly).. Rich Rod likely has the same problems with some of the UofM big wigs with lots of influence.. they can do a lot with the papers... ncaa personal.. who knows what connections. And I'm not saying Rich Rod is a bad coach like Smith was... but no Rich Rod fan likes that comparison.. so I used it

Anyhow this reaks of local powers not happy about RR and attempting to build a case against him.

Local politics is typically some very corrupt shit.

And lets face it Martin appears to be a terrible athletic director, the handling of the hiring process and public spurn from various coaches was bush league and down right damaging to the UofM reputation... he might be the target.

[Kstat]

I doubt any freshmen are doing this...they have no idea how hard you have to work to win at the college level.

It's most likely the remains of Lloyd's old guard that still have memories of sipping campaign under umbrellas and not really having to work hard.

Like Henne said...they want to be coddled and loved again.

[nhwbrooklyn]

I doubt any freshmen are doing this...they have no idea how hard you have to work to win at the college level.

It's most likely the remains of Lloyd's old guard that still have memories of sipping campaign under umbrellas and not really having to work hard.

Like Henne said...they want to be coddled and loved again.

Henne was under lloyd car though...

Consider this though, that RR might just be going too far.. at a school with education standards of a UofM its just not going to fly like it would at WVU. Perhaps some of these kids are honestly having a hard time dealing with this and their families are taking notice. At UofM, to its credit, you are going to get a higher percentage of football players who want to take full advantage of the schools education.

[nhwbrooklyn]

This story also points to how awful the NCAA is with its rules... where they have zero method of enforcing them until a local paper decides to write something (for what ever reason). But I'm sure schools like USC and Florida have the local media in line. So when a community or school holds itself to a higher standard they are in effect penalizing themselves.

The NCAA needs active enforcement and if they need money to do that the colleges need to fork over some of that football cash.

And again, it might also just be true that RR is farther than anyone else over the hourly limits and he pushed it too far (which is likely easier to do at a good school like UofM), spurring player and player family reaction.

[SeattleLionsFan]

Except that UMich apparently just posted it's highest GPA in 20 years last year...

I have no doubt that RichRod expects his guys to work hard...I doubt he did anything wrong here.

That said, I'd like to see some results on the field.

[SeattleLionsFan]

This story also points to how awful the NCAA is with its rules... where they have zero method of enforcing them until a local paper decides to write something (for what ever reason). But I'm sure schools like USC and Florida have the local media in line. So when a community or school holds itself to a higher standard they are in effect penalizing themselves.

The NCAA needs active enforcement and if they need money to do that the colleges need to fork over some of that football cash.

And again, it might also just be true that RR is farther than anyone else over the hourly limits and he pushed it too far (which is likely easier to do at a good school like UofM), spurring player and player family reaction.

Or it could be, that most of the hours reported are classified as voluntary and thus not counted...so no violation occurred.

[Kstat]

See, here's the thing:

For there to be bad rules in place, there needs to be punishment for breaking said rules.

I haven't read anything stating that players were punished for not going to these voluntary events.

So far its all "they scared us and they forced us," but no real evidence of scare tactics or actual force being used.

[nhwbrooklyn]

Well from a legal stand point sure. Thats very hard to prove it wasn't voluntary.

But in reality are those actually voluntary? Likely not... did RR push to far? yes in the sense that this story is embarrassing maybe to the program.. or strains fan/alumni/association faith in him. No in the sense that if nothing is proven and they get away with it, no sanctions.

How many schools do this and get away with it? Many I'm sure.

[nhwbrooklyn]

See, here's the thing:

For there to be bad rules in place, there needs to be punishment for breaking said rules.

I haven't read anything stating that players were punished for not going to these voluntary events.

So far its all "they scared us and they forced us," but no real evidence of scare tactics or actual force being used.

Sounds like a domestic abuse case.

[froot loops]

My wife brought up a good point, I would hate to be the trainers for that program if they are doing that. The support staff has to be there all the time. When she was a trainer she was routinely logging 80 hours a week making 25K a year and there was a big deal about the same sort of thing where there were too many hours being put in.

Nothing will come of this, but I gotta wonder what is going on with the Blue Wall. Rich Rod better start fortifying the Blue Wall.