U of M thread (in the Lions Forum) :)

[chemiclord]

Or... I dunno... accept the fact that Michigan no longer has any inherent advantages over the rest of the country (especially with its high standards for admission) and as a result isn't ever going to be the annual powerhouse that it was in the 50s.

It doesn't matter who the coach is. If you're not going to game the system like Alabama and OSU do, your ceiling is the Harbaugh-era Stanford.

Simply put, Michigan can't have its cake and eat it too. Not anymore. Accept it and deal.

[gibby]

Or... I dunno... accept the fact that Michigan no longer has any inherent advantages over the rest of the country (especially with its high standards for admission) and as a result isn't ever going to be the annual powerhouse that it was in the 50s.

It doesn't matter who the coach is. If you're not going to game the system like Alabama and OSU do, your ceiling is the Harbaugh-era Stanford.

Simply put, Michigan can't have its cake and eat it too. Not anymore. Accept it and deal.

At the current trajectory UM can only hope to not end up like Northwestern of the 1970's. At least Rich Rod put up a ton of points

[chemiclord]

So how many coaches are you going to cycle through before you accept that maybe the problem... isn't the coach? And that maybe... the problem isn't really a problem at all?

To be a national championship contender means ripping up Michigan's admission standards (or having two distinct standards for athletes and non-athletes like OSU does). It means lying to recruits about playing time to get them to sign on, then burying them at the end of the bench and refusing transfers like Alabama does. It basically means turning the University into something else and making a school of higher education entirely secondary, unlike the sorta half and half relationship it has now.

It means hiring a coach who will retain monsters in their coaching staff because they win. It'll mean looking the other way as someone like Larry Nasser diddles younger women because you don't dare rock the boat. It means gambling on kids with shit character and hoping they stay sane long enough to win you some championships before they start killing people in the pros. It means being willing to revisit the entire Ed Martin scandal and pray that it doesn't leak to the press this time.

If that is okay with you, then fine. Because that is what it takes to be a contender right now.

But if you want to crow about "Michigan standards," then sit the fuck down and shut up. Because the two are mutually exclusive at this point... if in fact they ever really overlapped at all.

[dsred]

Just a touch of hyperbole there...

I would be in favour of different academic standards for athletes because let's face it- they're not going to college to become rocket scientists... they're going there to essentially get their Bachelors of Football to try and make the NFL.

[chemiclord]

Not really. Look at the national champions and the contenders for that championship over even the last twenty years.

They almost universally oversign (promising scholarships they don't have) or have next to no academic standards for athletes, or were willing to look away at any number of abuses. How many times did Urban Meyer ignore Hernandez's red flags (because here's gonna be a shocker, he didn't exactly live clean at Florida)? Did you see how Urban handled the entire debacle with one of his coaches domestic abuse charges? He got a three-game suspension for willingly letting a woman be abused because he felt that coach was an important member of his staff. Three games. That'll teach him, I'm sure.

How much do you think is being ignored in Tuscaloosa because no one there has the balls to actually take the man running that state to task? You think Saban is running that ship cleanly, considering he's more than willing to lie to athlete's faces about scholarships, then deny them transfers once he gets them enrolled... and be utterly shameless in copping to it like he doesn't think there's anything wrong with that?

You need a Meyer or a Saban and a school willing to give them a blank check to do whatever they want. That's the reality. Is that what you want the University of Michigan to be? I'd wager anyone who values more than the football program would say, "absolutely not."

Hell, even if UM went that route, it wouldn't necessarily be a guarantee that they'd become an annual powerhouse. Their sole platform is their history... and that's pretty much it. Are people banging down the door to play in Ann Arbor when there's any number of other places that'll give them just as much exposure with less competition for playing time? I sincerely doubt it.

[The King]

What a pathetic display last night from a pathetic coach. The starting QB is leaving due to cramps? We had a delay of game on the first play of the second half!!!!! This team was totally unprepared to play.

Down 14 with 5 mins to go and we're huddling? No sense of urgency at all.

This fool takes this team to Rome, hangs with Migos and all this other stupid bullshit. He obviously isn't coaching football at a high level.

Oh, he lives in his hometown. His kid goes to the same school he went to!

It's all a fucking mirage to cover up what an inept coach he is. No innovation at all. He ran this same stupid ass offense at Stanford and SF. He was always playing in close games. The only difference is he had Luck and Kapernick to bail him out.

Get rid of this bum. The game has passed him by. I'm sick of this "Michigan Man" bullshit. Get someone who actually has a football mind in the 21st century and can win games.

[Masspartan]

So how many coaches are you going to cycle through before you accept that maybe the problem... isn't the coach? And that maybe... the problem isn't really a problem at all?

To be a national championship contender means ripping up Michigan's admission standards (or having two distinct standards for athletes and non-athletes like OSU does). It means lying to recruits about playing time to get them to sign on, then burying them at the end of the bench and refusing transfers like Alabama does. It basically means turning the University into something else and making a school of higher education entirely secondary, unlike the sorta half and half relationship it has now.

It means hiring a coach who will retain monsters in their coaching staff because they win. It'll mean looking the other way as someone like Larry Nasser diddles younger women because you don't dare rock the boat. It means gambling on kids with shit character and hoping they stay sane long enough to win you some championships before they start killing people in the pros. It means being willing to revisit the entire Ed Martin scandal and pray that it doesn't leak to the press this time.

If that is okay with you, then fine. Because that is what it takes to be a contender right now.

But if you want to crow about "Michigan standards," then sit the fuck down and shut up. Because the two are mutually exclusive at this point... if in fact they ever really overlapped at all.

If you are implying that (the recently NCAA cleared) MSU was promoting or hiding what Nassar did for the sake of winning games ... then FUCK YOU. Nassar fooled a lot of people for a long time including parents that were standing in the room with their kids as it happened. Klages and a couple of other employees have rightfully been shown the door for their role in with Nassar.

And lol if you are implying that Michigan has higher academic standards or more integrity than the rest of the country and that's why they don't win. Don't they start a receiver on their team who was accused/convicted of sexual assault (Perry), didn't they keep a guy for 4 years on their team who commited criminal sexual misconduct (Gibbons) and another guy who threatened a girl and said shut up or it will happen again? (Lewan)

Fact is Michigan is no different or better than other big time programs, they all, including MSU have warts. If you think that Ohio State has guys on their team that wouldn't be allowed to play football at UM because of academic standards then you are truly delusional.

[chemiclord]

Not just that. But thanks for getting aggressively defensive because MSU turned a blind eye on Nasser and you don't like being reminded of it. Too bad. That's Sparty's scarlet letter, and they gotta wear it. Fuck, if anything Dantonio's probably happy that Nasser's crimes overshadowed the shit his players were doing at the time.

But you did hit on the heart of it. Michigan isn't any better, or any worse, than anyone else. They are a perfectly average program that wants to continue to maintain the illusion between academics and athletics. If they want to be that collegiate football powerhouse again, or more accurately if they want the CHANCE to be that powerhouse again, they're gonna have to stop trying to toe that line of playing "nice" (or at least, as nice as collegiate athletics pretends to be). Is that really what Wolvy wants? Especially since there's no guarantee whatsoever those "glory days" will come back even IF they start rolling in the mud with the OSU's and SEC power teams?

It's harder to accept that Michigan is over as a powerhouse, and that they are effectively Notre Dame without an exclusive TV deal, I guess.

[FVD]

How does a quarterback who grew up in Louisiana start cramping up because it was humid and in the 70s? You know what you call 77 and humid in Louisiana? Winter.

[WingsFan]

Another Harbaughcle on the road, no surprise there. Northwestern may possibly squeak into the top 25 by the time we travel there in 3 weeks. That will be 18 and counting

[Masspartan]

Not just that. But thanks for getting aggressively defensive because MSU turned a blind eye on Nasser and you don't like being reminded of it. Too bad. That's Sparty's scarlet letter, and they gotta wear it. Fuck, if anything Dantonio's probably happy that Nasser's crimes overshadowed the shit his players were doing at the time.

But you did hit on the heart of it. Michigan isn't any better, or any worse, than anyone else. They are a perfectly average program that wants to continue to maintain the illusion between academics and athletics. If they want to be that collegiate football powerhouse again, or more accurately if they want the CHANCE to be that powerhouse again, they're gonna have to stop trying to toe that line of playing "nice" (or at least, as nice as collegiate athletics pretends to be). Is that really what Wolvy wants? Especially since there's no guarantee whatsoever those "glory days" will come back even IF they start rolling in the mud with the OSU's and SEC power teams?

It's harder to accept that Michigan is over as a powerhouse, and that they are effectively Notre Dame without an exclusive TV deal, I guess.

MSU didn't turn a blind eye on Nassar. By saying that you lumping a lot of very good honorable people in with a few scumbags that everyone associated with MSU hopes ends up in jail. So again FU. There were a few people involved who didn't do the right thing and should serve jail time. Klages & Strampel come to mind immediately. You have to remember that Nassar was investigated and cleared on two or three occasions. Now personally if I've got an employee who been investigated 3 times I'm probably looking to get rid of them even if they were cleared. Nassar didn't work for the athletic department. He worked for Strampel iirc in the college of Osteopathic Medicine (Strampel was fired) and a lot of his abused came through the USOC channels. He was a sick fuck who fooled a lot of people and associates. This wasn't some great cover up ... this was ignorance and stupidity by a few.

[Fraquar]

How does a quarterback who grew up in Louisiana start cramping up because it was humid and in the 70s? You know what you call 77 and humid in Louisiana? Winter.

Same way Bush who grew up in Florida comes up with cramps in the same game?

[Fraquar]

MSU didn't turn a blind eye on Nassar. By saying that you lumping a lot of very good honorable people in with a few scumbags that everyone associated with MSU hopes ends up in jail. So again FU. There were a few people involved who didn't do the right thing and should serve jail time. Klages & Strampel come to mind immediately. You have to remember that Nassar was investigated and cleared on two or three occasions. Now personally if I've got an employee who been investigated 3 times I'm probably looking to get rid of them even if they were cleared. Nassar didn't work for the athletic department. He worked for Strampel iirc in the college of Osteopathic Medicine (Strampel was fired) and a lot of his abused came through the USOC channels. He was a sick fuck who fooled a lot of people and associates. This wasn't some great cover up ... this was ignorance and stupidity by a few.

They didn't fire Strampel, they allowed him the honor of retirement including taking 175,000 out the door. All the information they had on him they still wouldn't actually fire the guy.

[WingsFan]

[WingsFan]