U of M thread (in the Lions Forum) :)

[Nick Pappageorgio]

I want to give a shout to the UoM WRs......much is made of denard (and as far as running the ball he deserves it), but last night he was just throwing the ball up. Those WRs were bringing those balls down despite being covered.

Denard's ability to run changes the coverage......but last night those 300+ yds passing were on the WR not the QB.

[Kstat]

thank goodness they pulled that game out last night.

A loss would be been a horrible national viewing of how far away the program is from contending.

At least this win in the limelight gives them some media breathing room

I totally disagree.

Notre Dame has a lot of NFL talent. They just don't have it at QB right now, which is why they keep losing.

I would not have felt terrible at all if we had lost. Nobody expects Hoke to win much with RichRod's players.

[Topweasel]

After 2008, take a look at how many players from Carr's last recruiting classes made it to the NFL. The quality of recruits dropped sharply; partially because of scholarship limits and partially because national exposure with cable and satellite TV allowed "little guys" to start drawing in players who would normally have been fighting to be the backup in a major program.

In that more competitive recruiting environment, Carr and his staff weren't prepared. Carr isn't exactly a charismatic personality to begin with; and was never much of a salesman (take a look at how Urban Meyer and Lloyd Carr played the media at the end of 2007 for an example of this). It's kinda sad, because I honestly find that sort of salesman personality irritating, but that's the way it is in college football.

For the record, Hoke looks to be much better at this, but I digress.

I would wager, as I mentioned, my biggest beef with Carr is that he was such an arrogant asswipe who could get his pride wounded very, very easily. He became so obsessed with securing his legacy that it superseded the school's success when he stepped down from coaching.

For the record, Carr was not the only one to blame for the eventual hiring of RichRod and the debacle that followed (just want to get that out there). Carr wasn't the one who coined "Benedict Harbaugh" for example. He did not have a monopoly on arrogance in Ann Arbor.

you're talking to an uncaring third party. I just don't think that people weren't lining up to play for a 11-2 UM team. In fact things problem with Michigan that year seems closer to what Alabama went through last year. Lack of hunger and effort.

[Kstat]

I want to give a shout to the UoM WRs......much is made of denard (and as far as running the ball he deserves it), but last night he was just throwing the ball up. Those WRs were bringing those balls down despite being covered.

It felt a lot like watching Michael Vick at Va Tech. A superb spread-type athletic QB in a pro style offense.

The most encouraging thing by far about that is the fact Denard is not taking nearly as many hits. His runs now are mostly scrambles out of the pocket, rather than designed draw plays into the pile.

[chemiclord]

you're talking to an uncaring third party. I just don't think that people weren't lining up to play for a 11-2 UM team. In fact things problem with Michigan that year seems closer to what Alabama went through last year. Lack of hunger and effort.

You're the one who said he didn't understand what I said. I attempted to clarify. That's all.

[Fraquar]

I want to give a shout to the UoM WRs......much is made of denard (and as far as running the ball he deserves it), but last night he was just throwing the ball up. Those WRs were bringing those balls down despite being covered.

Denard's ability to run changes the coverage......but last night those 300+ yds passing were on the WR not the QB.

Who is the idiot that has Denard roll right that throw back across the entire field 30+ yards? Shit, even Elway would find that a challenge.

[Kstat]

Henne actually did that a lot with Braylon Edwards. It was their way of relaxing the defense on him in the red zone.

[Fraquar]

Henne has a cannon though compared to Denard - he needs underneath help.

[Kstat]

Denard has a big arm too. He just has no touch on the ball.

[Fraquar]

He doesn't have an elite arm, and thats the only arm you even think of making a 30+ yard throw across your body. That equates to nearly a 70 yard throw when it's all said and done.

[froot loops]

But the worst bit about Carr was how he felt he deserved to be in the pantheon along with Schembechler and Yost, and was seethingly bitter when Michigan looked at him and said, "Uhhhhh... no." They were right, he didn't deserve it, and a lot of the infighting in Ann Arbor that led to the RichRod disaster was directly because of Carr's wounded ego.

So, yeah. Hater. I guess I'm not sure what else you want me to admit to.

If Carr's second to last season is to be discounted because of a light schedule, why is Schembechler in "the pantheon", he made much of his mark in a really weak Big Ten(Big 2, little 8). Schembechler's bowl record was weak, never really came close to a National championship.

Seems to me that you don't like Carr and you cherry pick reasons why he wasn't in "the pantheon". But a lot of these reasons apply to Schembechler as well.

And Yost? Come on, these Michigan people like to point to yesteryear but Yost coached with all kinds of advantages that a guy like Carr never had. Schembechler had a lot more advantages as well. Plain and simple, Carr was head coach in an era that was much more competitive than either of those other two.

[chemiclord]

I never said it should be discounted, first of all. I said that it was a bit deceiving because they played all of one team in the Top 25 until the final two games, both of which they lost.

Yost was the defining coach of Michigan football's early history. Schembechler was the one who brought it back from near death. What did Lloyd do? Won a championship with Moeller's framework and underachieved nearly every year.

For the record, I was never awestruck with Schembechler myself, but at that time the goal was to win the Big Ten and beat Ohio State. He did that enough in U-M's eyes. By Carr's time, the goal was to be a national championship contender. Losing on the road in September every year is not a good way to accomplish that. Whether you want to call that fair or not... hey, I'm not the one that set that standard.

No one is giving Dan Fouts a 1000 TD passes just because he claims he would in the modern rules. You're judged by the standards set. If you think U-M's expectations were unrealistic, I can't say you're wrong, but it is what it is.

Even then, something like 7 straight road opening losses isn't good no matter what standard you're going by. 1-8 against Jim Tressel isn't good no matter what standard you go by. Losing to Appalachian State when you're the 5th ranked team in the nation... yeah, same deal.

But hey, even if you think Carr was unjustly disrespected by the university; how do you rationalize his actions afterwards? The brass of Ann Arbor called Jim Harbaugh, "Benedict Harbaugh" for suggesting Michigan gives athletes a break academically... but leaking information about talks pertaining to the next coach of the university? Nah... that's cool.

The dude intentionally sabotaged the school's coaching search because he was angry they wouldn't hire Ron English just because he said so. I'm sorry, I wouldn't give him a seat at Denny's after that stunt.

[*JD*]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CqRd_ICBaA&feature=player_embedded"]MI ND Epic WIN - YouTube[/ame]

[froot loops]

I never said it should be discounted, first of all. I said that it was a bit deceiving because they played all of one team in the Top 25 until the final two games, both of which they lost.

Yost was the defining coach of Michigan football's early history. Schembechler was the one who brought it back from near death. What did Lloyd do? Won a championship with Moeller's framework and underachieved nearly every year.

For the record, I was never awestruck with Schembechler myself, but at that time the goal was to win the Big Ten and beat Ohio State. He did that enough in U-M's eyes. By Carr's time, the goal was to be a national championship contender. Losing on the road in September every year is not a good way to accomplish that. Whether you want to call that fair or not... hey, I'm not the one that set that standard.

No one is giving Dan Fouts a 1000 TD passes just because he claims he would in the modern rules. You're judged by the standards set. If you think U-M's expectations were unrealistic, I can't say you're wrong, but it is what it is.

Even then, something like 7 straight road opening losses isn't good no matter what standard you're going by. 1-8 against Jim Tressel isn't good no matter what standard you go by. Losing to Appalachian State when you're the 5th ranked team in the nation... yeah, same deal.

But hey, even if you think Carr was unjustly disrespected by the university; how do you rationalize his actions afterwards? The brass of Ann Arbor called Jim Harbaugh, "Benedict Harbaugh" for suggesting Michigan gives athletes a break academically... but leaking information about talks pertaining to the next coach of the university? Nah... that's cool.

The dude intentionally sabotaged the school's coaching search because he was angry they wouldn't hire Ron English just because he said so. I'm sorry, I wouldn't give him a seat at Denny's after that stunt.

Well its pretty clear Carr didn't like Rich Rodriguez and thought he was bad for the program. Guess what? He was 100 percent correct. Rod Rodriguez was a failure, not cut out for the job. With State, they hire a bad coach like John L Smith and everyone can agree that it was a bad hire, Michigan makes an awful coaching decision and they have to find some external reason on why this "offensive genius" didn't work out. Funny thing is they blame Carr for sabotaging it, the hiring was the actual sabotage.

Plus your story is jaundiced against Carr and not what I've heard how it went down. So its all a matter of who is talking to who.

I have no skin in the game on this. I couldn't stand Carr, but I correctly said you wouldn't know what you had until he left and on that account I am 100 percent correct.

pANDs

People keep on talking Harbaugh but everyone and their brother said he was destined for the pros. Guess what? He's in the pros. If Carr had some inkling that getting a guy not long for the university wasn't in the programs best interst, maybe he was right.

[froot loops]

mind you chmiclord is talking about things that he may have heard like it is determined fact. But everyone has an axe to grind when they leak stuff. And everyone at Michigan has been leaking.