U of M thread (in the Lions Forum) :)

[Tony G]

It's still going to take some time. I wouldn't say "We're back" yet. I expect our record will be similar to last year's (although we don't play any D2 schools, or whatever they are called these days, this year) with 7 or 8 wins and some losses where we get run over by bigger and more talented teams.

It was an exciting game but ND lost this as much if not more than U-M won it.

[nhwbrooklyn]

Besides the 1997 team Lloyd was pretty consistent. 2, 3, and 4 loss teams just about every year with one 5 loss team.

I think the main difference between the earlier years and the later years was bowl records.

[NewOrleansLion]

The lead... changed... THREE TIMES... in the last 1:12 seconds of the game, and NONE of the changes were due to kickoff return TDs.

How... how is that even possible? I WATCHED IT HAPPEN, and still don't believe it's possible.

It's possible when the defenses are that bad. I've never seen that many blown coverages in 2 minutes. But I'll give Michigan credit for taking advantage of the opportunities that were given to them.

And that pass Robinson threw with a guy wrapped around his legs was not human. This coming from an admitted Michigan hater.

[chemiclord]

Besides the 1997 team Lloyd was pretty consistent. 2, 3, and 4 loss teams just about every year with one 5 loss team.

I think the main difference between the earlier years and the later years was bowl records.

I look at Carr in the same way I look at Les Miles. Their greatest success was with someone else's players (Moeller's recruits were the backbone of that 1997 squad), and was good to very good when it was their show entirely. Never really a national title contender, but good enough to be a contender in the conference every other year or so. If that was what you were looking for, that's fine.

Carr had the advantage of a situation where elite recruits were tripping over themselves to play for a major program in an elite conference. He was a good recruiter, not great. He was a good game planner, not great. He had the absolute most cockmunch retarded game philosophy in the history of ever, but whatever.

Basically... he was good, not great. His arrogance that he deserved the respect of Schembechler or Yost was and is sickening. I'm probably never going to get over that. So yeah, I'm a hater. Guilty as charged.

[Rocky Bleier]

Throwback jerseys are similar to what was worn in 1894...

[gjdodger]

It's possible when the defenses are that bad. I've never seen that many blown coverages in 2 minutes. But I'll give Michigan credit for taking advantage of the opportunities that were given to them.

And that pass Robinson threw with a guy wrapped around his legs was not human. This coming from an admitted Michigan hater.

Or when offenses are that good. I also watched Auburn stop Missa State on the goal line to win 41-34, or the other SEC game that went 45-42. That sort of stuff is just not uncommon these days; the rules favor the offense so much that a really good offense is unstoppable. The only thing that was really miraculous was Michigan's touchdown on two plays with :23 left, and that's more like "inexcusable."

[Tony G]

Nice user pic Rocky

[gjdodger]

Yes, I'm a Carr hater. Because he was nowhere near as great as you want to pretend he was.

2005: 7-5. That team would have struggled to beat this ND squad.
2006: That team played no one except an overrated ND team until the end of the year, where they got beat by OSU then spanked by USC.
2007: Appalachian State. That is all.

Sure. He was "Idiot Lloyd." You seem to have a deep seated hatred of paternal leaders like Leyland and Carr. I'm starting to think it's Oedipal.

[Tony G]

the rules favor the offense so much that a really good offense is unstoppable. The only thing that was really miraculous was Michigan's touchdown on two plays with :23 left, and that's more like "inexcusable."

True point Dodge but I have a hard time calling either of those offenses really good.

[chemiclord]

Sure. He was "Idiot Lloyd." You seem to have a deep seated hatred of paternal leaders like Leyland and Carr. I'm starting to think it's Oedipal.

I have a deep seated hatred of people who do stupid shit, and demand to be worshiped for it.

Carr's "games are won and lost in the 4th quarter" philosophy was one of the most retarded game philosophies I have ever heard. He would willingly leave points on the field in pursuit of that philosophy, letting inferior opponents hang in there to the point where the game boiled down to one drive or one series.

That was at the core of many of his losses to inferior teams that drove fans mad. He would never put an opponent away at halftime unless they were so completely outclassed it happened naturally. Games that should have been 35-10 at halftime was more like 20-10 because of it. When you let opponents hang around, you exponentially increase the chances of a fluke bounce or one good drive fucking you over.

On the flip side of that, I will acknowledge that same philosophy helped immensely against teams that outclassed Michigan (which while uncommon, did happen). My problem was that the number of games where Michigan was the superior team far, far, far outnumbered the games they were the inferior one.

But the worst bit about Carr was how he felt he deserved to be in the pantheon along with Schembechler and Yost, and was seethingly bitter when Michigan looked at him and said, "Uhhhhh... no." They were right, he didn't deserve it, and a lot of the infighting in Ann Arbor that led to the RichRod disaster was directly because of Carr's wounded ego.

So, yeah. Hater. I guess I'm not sure what else you want me to admit to.

[Topweasel]

Not his last couple, when it was clear the game had passed him by, and recruits weren't lining up to play at Michigan on reputation alone.

I get confused by sayings like this. True his last season was pretty miserable, it was only one season removed from being one game away from an NC game. A season he went into the last game of the season 11-0.


Edit: Got so caught up on this, I see your opinion was already covered. Still retarded.

[Fraquar]

That one season removed was pretty significant, when the 2nd stringers who would be counted on in future seasons couldn't stop Ball State - and they had to bring the 1st stringers back in to close the deal.

It was the precursor to the Appalachian State game the following season.

[The Ken]

thank goodness they pulled that game out last night.

A loss would be been a horrible national viewing of how far away the program is from contending.

At least this win in the limelight gives them some media breathing room

[chemiclord]

I get confused by sayings like this. True his last season was pretty miserable, it was only one season removed from being one game away from an NC game. A season he went into the last game of the season 11-0.


Edit: Got so caught up on this, I see your opinion was already covered. Still retarded.

After 2008, take a look at how many players from Carr's last recruiting classes made it to the NFL. The quality of recruits dropped sharply; partially because of scholarship limits and partially because national exposure with cable and satellite TV allowed "little guys" to start drawing in players who would normally have been fighting to be the backup in a major program.

In that more competitive recruiting environment, Carr and his staff weren't prepared. Carr isn't exactly a charismatic personality to begin with; and was never much of a salesman (take a look at how Urban Meyer and Lloyd Carr played the media at the end of 2007 for an example of this). It's kinda sad, because I honestly find that sort of salesman personality irritating, but that's the way it is in college football.

For the record, Hoke looks to be much better at this, but I digress.

I would wager, as I mentioned, my biggest beef with Carr is that he was such an arrogant asswipe who could get his pride wounded very, very easily. He became so obsessed with securing his legacy that it superseded the school's success when he stepped down from coaching.

For the record, Carr was not the only one to blame for the eventual hiring of RichRod and the debacle that followed (just want to get that out there). Carr wasn't the one who coined "Benedict Harbaugh" for example. He did not have a monopoly on arrogance in Ann Arbor.

[gjdodger]

I get confused by sayings like this. True his last season was pretty miserable, it was only one season removed from being one game away from an NC game. A season he went into the last game of the season 11-0.


Edit: Got so caught up on this, I see your opinion was already covered. Still retarded.

ILA