U of M thread (in the Lions Forum) :)

[Rocky Bleier]

It has been maddening the way guys continue to hold the ball in their "wrong" hand as the go upfield. I know the coaches have drilled that into them, but they continue to do it and invite opposing players to go after the ball. I'm reminding of a certain southern gentleman who once exclaimed, "I don't coach that!" And you'd think thes guys had never received a punt or kickoff before. They can't catch, and they make terrible decisions. For example: late in the PSU game Avery Horn, who is no speedster, tries to catch a kickoff 5 yards deep in the endzone. He dropped it, of course, then scrambled around trying to pick it up before deciding to make a go of it. He somehow made it past the 15 yard line. Rodriguez couldn't believe what he had just seen. It's a freakin' comedy of errors.

[SeattleLionsFan]

I expected a lack of talent to match a new system to cause some problems - but I didn't expect the breakdown in simple fundamentals they have displayed this year.

Sloppy football.

This is the part that kills me. I've never seen Michigan football play so sloppy...

[froot loops]

You are a good man sir!

Lloyd's strength was also his weakness in that he didn't seem to understand that the criticism was well founded and that it warranted action. He is definitely a good person and ran a clean program which I respect and admire, but with all the talent he had we should have done much, much better under his tenure especially toward the end.

As far as RichRod goes I think he'll weather the storm from the media, alumni and fans. His cupboard wasn't good enough to compete this year but in the next 2 years I think his team will be competing for a Big10 title.

You know I don't think thats correct about Lloyd. When you say much, much better, I don't agree. They did go to a lot of BCS games. They always challenged for the big ten, so if you think Rich Rodriguez will get to the point where he competing for the Big 10 title, it seems like he's trying to get to the place where Lloyd Carr was consistently.

[gjdodger]

I pretty much felt the same way. I wasn't thrilled to get rid of Lloyd, just because I knew it would be hard to get another coach of that caliber. OSU is gloating because right now they're perennial championship contenders, but that star seems to fade pretty fast; Michigan is presuming RichRod, who made silk purses out of sow's ears elsewhere, will take their storied program and fabled nationwide recruiting draw and make them a champion. Maybe, maybe not.

[Timmy]

You know I don't think thats correct about Lloyd. When you say much, much better, I don't agree. They did go to a lot of BCS games. They always challenged for the big ten, so if you think Rich Rodriguez will get to the point where he competing for the Big 10 title, it seems like he's trying to get to the place where Lloyd Carr was consistently.

For most of the time Lloyd was here it was the Big 2 Little 9 as far as who was contending for the title. We had much better recruiting than anyone but OSU so contending for the B10 title should have been a given. The fact that we were doormats for OSU since Tressel came along shows that Lloyd wasn't the guy to move the program along IMO.

While alumni were perfectly content to say we're going bowling I think our flops in the bowl games were embarrassing. The kids and the program in general deserved better than to be a foil for an SEC team. Losing to Appalachian State was just the straw that broke the camel's back as far as Lloyd's tenure goes. Seems the game had passed him by several years ago and he had been cruising along on Michigan's ability to recruit more talented players.

Just my $.02

[froot loops]

I doubt the game passed Lloyd. People claimed that the game passed Paterno by, but he all of a sudden got better recruits. But Lloyd retired, so there's nothing to say that he was going to stay. I'm just puzzled by the drastic change in philosophy. It might work out, but I said at the time that they needed to find someone to invigorate the program, like a new Lloyd Carr with energy of a newcomer.

I guess I didn't make my point clear enough earlier because I kind of wasn't trying to resurrect the Lloyd Carr arguments on whether the game passed him by. More to the fact that I wonder whether Rich Rodriguez will be able to handle the pressure cooker of the Michigan job. Carr's approach shielded the players and made the media the bad guy. That stiff upper lip approach allowed that program to be able to circle the wagons in times of trouble. I just wonder if Rodriguez is going to be able to take the criticism over the years. He hasn't handled well so far.

[froot loops]

For most of the time Lloyd was here it was the Big 2 Little 9 as far as who was contending for the title.

Compared to what era? I don't have my football history book close at hand but I would imagine the last 10-15 years has been pretty competitive in the Big 10 compared the years when Bo Schembechler and Woddy Hayes competed, then it was truly the Big 2.

[Rocky Bleier]

He sort of takes the "Hey, it ain't me" approach to losses. He says the coaches have to do a better job, but he also gives players their share of the blame, though he doesn't mention individuals. The players have been making some bonehead mistakes, but I wonder if they aren't uptight. The atmosphere does not seem calm.

[gjdodger]

For most of the time Lloyd was here it was the Big 2 Little 9 as far as who was contending for the title.

No way. Big Ten titles 1995-2007:

Michigan 3 and 2 shared
OSU 2 and 4 shared
Wisconsin 1 and 1 shared
Northwestern 1 and 2 shared
Illinois 1
Iowa 2 shared
Purdue and PSU 1 shared each

Seems pretty competitive to me. Michigan and OSU won 5 outright out of 13 years. That's not particularly dominating.

Edit...however, one or the other of them won or were tied 10 of those 13 years, so yeah, that's a stronger position. But it still wasn't the "Big 2 and Little 9."

[Rocky Bleier]

Michigan can win Saturday if they can put together 4 consistent quarters. I'd take the first half against Penn State and the second half against Wisconsin. Nothing so far leads me to believe they'll do that. There are a boatload of potential recruits coming to the game. I hope it's not too embarrassing. Some recruits will see an opportunity to play, others will see a program in chaos.

[Drew]

UM doing well on 1st and 2nd down. 3rd down? Not so much.

7-0 MSU

[Kstat]

the U-M secondary is the worst group of DBs I have ever seen in college. Ever.

[Drew]

McGuffie is just too light. He doesn't bring any momentum with him.

[Drew]

Well, the ground caused Hoyer's fumble, and I think dude had his knee down when he picked it up, but the replay official says no to both.

[Drew]

That's a TD?