U of M thread (in the Lions Forum) :)

[chemiclord]

I'm always disturbed that what's best for the student athlete rarely enters into these playoff discussion. These are kids. They are playing basically for free (less scolarships), traveling and under huge stress during holiday and exam season, all while generating enormous amount of revenue for rich guys.

And travelling for Thursday night games (which is steadily becoming the norm) is good for students? Going from what was once a 10 or 11 week schedule to a 12 or 13 week one is good for students?

That's my problem with that argument. The BCS schools cite the students and travel, then they start adding weekday games, and extending the regular season up to two weeks over the last ten years.

It doesn't strike me that the BCS really gives one hot shit about the students either.

[gjdodger]

Rust and Belt?
Shirts and Skins?
Scotch and Soda?
Bo and Joe?
Corn and Beans?
Mutt and Jeff?
Rowan and Martin?
Lucy and Desi?
Bugs and Daffy?

[LightninBoy]

And travelling for Thursday night games (which is steadily becoming the norm) is good for students? Going from what was once a 10 or 11 week schedule to a 12 or 13 week one is good for students?

That's my problem with that argument. The BCS schools cite the students and travel, then they start adding weekday games, and extending the regular season up to two weeks over the last ten years.

It doesn't strike me that the BCS really gives one hot shit about the students either.

Oh - I have no doubt that the BCS schools aren't looking after the student athlete. The interest of the BCS schools and student athlete only accidentally align when it comes to the BCS and Bowls versus playoffs. And the BCS uses that for political advantage.

But that doesn't neutralize the argument - there are real kids here who's lives and family will be impacted by an extended playoff system. We've had a couple posts here over the past couple days in this thread on the subject and they weren't mentioned once. That is the norm. Instead, we talk endlessly about what the fans want and who takes home the revenue. It deeply disturbs me.

[Masspartan]

Big Ten may rethink football division names

Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany says a high non-approval rating from fans has the conference thinking it may reconsider the names ? Leaders and Legends ? given to the two new football divisions.

ha .... that is so funny.

[Masspartan]

I'm always disturbed that what's best for the student athlete rarely enters into these playoff discussion. These are kids. They are playing basically for free (less scolarships), traveling and under huge stress during holiday and exam season, all while generating enormous amount of revenue for rich guys.

come on. Think about.

Start with 16 schools and 2 weeks later down to 4 schools, and you can be SURE that the kids of those 4 schools will put in the extra study sessions etc happily in order to have a chance to be called champion.

With only 2 schools vying for the championship ... you are putting stress on anybody who doesn't want for a once in a lifetime opportunity.

The education argument is VERY weak imo.

and SLF ... it isn't about what you want. It's what the student athletes want, and they would want to be champions on the field. Not voted in or out. Ask any NU or UM player if they would want to play that game winner take all.

[chemiclord]

Oh - I have no doubt that the BCS schools aren't looking after the student athlete. The interest of the BCS schools and student athlete only accidentally align when it comes to the BCS and Bowls versus playoffs. And the BCS uses that for political advantage.

But that doesn't neutralize the argument - there are real kids here who's lives and family will be impacted by an extended playoff system. We've had a couple posts here over the past couple days in this thread on the subject and they weren't mentioned once. That is the norm. Instead, we talk endlessly about what the fans want and who takes home the revenue. It deeply disturbs me.

And that is one legit argument against a playoff system that I really have no answer for. If you want to argue the old bowl method and use that as your rationale, I cannot refute you.

[nhwbrooklyn]

I'm always disturbed that what's best for the student athlete rarely enters into these playoff discussion. These are kids. They are playing basically for free (less scolarships), traveling and under huge stress during holiday and exam season, all while generating enormous amount of revenue for rich guys.

They need to be paid. Doesn't have to be a ton and they dont need the bulk of it right away and can wait to receive most of it until after they graduate but if they are maximized for profit, and they are, then they need to be part of that boon.

[chemiclord]

They need to be paid. Doesn't have to be a ton and they dont need the bulk of it right away and can wait to receive most of it until after they graduate but if they are maximized for profit, and they are, then they need to be part of that boon.

They are paid.

In the form of a free education at an elite school they would not be attending otherwise.

[Masspartan]

They need to be paid. Doesn't have to be a ton and they dont need the bulk of it right away and can wait to receive most of it until after they graduate but if they are maximized for profit, and they are, then they need to be part of that boon.

no they don't. Much of the revenue generated by the big ticket sports is used to fund non revenue sports that other student athletes enjoy and participate in because they WANT to. Same for football players. Nobody is forcing them to accept a scholarship, get a free education, among other perks .. they do it because they want to and because they are getting a free internship in their quest to become professionals.

Start paying the players and then good-bye other sports.

and I agree Chemi .... 20, 30, 50+ K per year they are getting in education fees that the non athletes have to pay on their own is significant

[nhwbrooklyn]

The quality of the education isn't the same as the one they would get if they just took student loans and made their way through that way. The demands of the football programs are very high.

It's big business except you have a work force whos wage stays the same even though the profits increase. Does the escalating costs of education match up with the increase in profit? Doubtful. These kids are the product and are not adequately compensated. Do we want to give kids a bunch of money to get in trouble with? No, but they are not paid anywhere near to what they bring in for others and they wouldn't have to receive the bulk of their earned money until after school.

[nhwbrooklyn]

no they don't. Much of the revenue generated by the big ticket sports is used to fund non revenue sports that other student athletes enjoy and participate in because they WANT to. Same for football players. Nobody is forcing them to accept a scholarship, get a free education, among other perks .. they do it because they want to and because they are getting a free internship in their quest to become professionals.

Start paying the players and then good-bye other sports.

and I agree Chemi .... 20, 30, 50+ K per year they are getting in education fees that the non athletes have to pay on their own is significant

There will always be a bad smell in the air when people are finding ways to make more money from kids where their compensation doesn't change.

[Masspartan]

the Clara Bell center wasn't built for regular students ... it was built for athletes ... who get free tutoring etc ... and they have a much larger support system to ensure their success. Nobody held your or my hand to get a degree.

[nhwbrooklyn]

the Clara Bell center was built for regular students ... it was built for athletes ... who get free tutoring etc ... and they have a much larger support system to ensure their success. Nobody held your or my hand to get a degree.

We also didn't bring in millions on our backs. There is no doubt the kids want take the deal. I would too. But there is still a gap between how they are compensated and how much they bring in. A massive gap that creates hypocrisy and corruption.

[Mainevent]

If done right (a huge IF given the NCAA) a playoff would only marginally impact the overall games commitment from student athletes. Right now, Auburn, South Carolina, Oklahoma and Nebraska (among others) will play 14 games this year once the bowl season is complete. If you took 1 game away in the regular season so everybody was playing 11 games, then held an 8 team playoff, you'd have 2 teams that would play 15 games, and everybody else playing the standard 12/13/14 that teams play now.

I really do hate the BCS. It's just so half ass. I agree with others that prefer the old bowl systems to this trumped up mess.

[LightninBoy]

We also didn't bring in millions on our backs. There is no doubt the kids want take the deal. I would too. But there is still a gap between how they are compensated and how much they bring in. A massive gap that creates hypocrisy and corruption.

And attracts guys like Cuban who come in to try to get a piece of the action.

Not sure paying the players is the answer. I just don't like the general fan's attitude that demands college football cater to their wants.