U of M thread (in the Lions Forum) :)

[LionsWolverines]

It surely shouldn't be.

I'd have to disagree. You have to look at how you can win with the guys you have. And I'm not sure they can run a tradtional offense with the guys we have, let alone the guys we're recruiting fir this offense. I'd say switching back puts us back where we were RRs first year. Either way, rex ryan could coach this defense and they would still be awful. Hopefully when we get our DBs back next year we'll be better off. We've got guys playing who should really be redshirting, and it shows.

[gjdodger]

I'd have to disagree. You have to look at how you can win with the guys you have. And I'm not sure they can run a tradtional offense with the guys we have, let alone the guys we're recruiting fir this offense. I'd say switching back puts us back where we were RRs first year. Either way, rex ryan could coach this defense and they would still be awful. Hopefully when we get our DBs back next year we'll be better off. We've got guys playing who should really be redshirting, and it shows.

I will disagree with your disagreement. First, no football team, college or pro, gives any priority to continuing the current offensive system when they hire a head coach; they're looking for a lot of other things. Second, very few of them hire to win right now, and those that do--the Alabamas, Notre Dames and Dallas Cowboys of the world--are looking for the quality of the coach, not the technical merits of their systems. They figure because we're who we are, the incoming coach can get personnel who can win, regardless of how he intends to deploy them. I think Michigan falls in that category, which is one reason I think RichRod was a goner before the season started; they're not about to let him claim he's losing because he can't get good players.

[Mainevent]

They've still got 300lb lineman, a solid stable of RBs and WRs. If they can't compete with a more conventional offense, then they just aren't very talented players.

[Masspartan]

"RichRod is toast, amigo. I don't care if he runs the table. He sullied the Maize and Blue. He doesn't belong at a respectable institution."
--------------------RichRod will be back next year. This is a young team.

GO LIONS "10" !!!!!!!!!!

so is Michigan State.

[froot loops]

I'd have to disagree. You have to look at how you can win with the guys you have. And I'm not sure they can run a tradtional offense with the guys we have, let alone the guys we're recruiting fir this offense. I'd say switching back puts us back where we were RRs first year. Either way, rex ryan could coach this defense and they would still be awful. Hopefully when we get our DBs back next year we'll be better off. We've got guys playing who should really be redshirting, and it shows.

Mark Dantonio took over a program that was in worse shape using a spread attack and turned it into a traditional pro set offense the next year and had success.

When you hire a coach, especially at a traditional college power you shouldn't be looking at what you can do in the short term with the existing players. You have to be looking at long term. And long term means stability in offense, defense and special teams. So far in the first three seasons of Michigan football it appears they hired only looking for offense.

[froot loops]

They've still got 300lb lineman, a solid stable of RBs and WRs. If they can't compete with a more conventional offense, then they just aren't very talented players.

Correct, I don't understand this association that teams that run the spread offense somehow have vastly different players and are unable to run a different offense. I guess coaches talk so much about systems and needing their players to fit a system that the public believes them.

[LionsWolverines]

I suppose I worded that wrong, i'm not worried about the offense. They have proven more than capable against everyone we've played, and if they stop being careless will continue to do so. The defense is the problem, as we all know.

And I just don't feel like this is all on Greg robinson. (I would obviously still prefer we get someone who is better as a DC) these guys out there are just not good players. Rex ryan couldn't make guys like Avery, C. Gordon, rogers, banks, and ezeh magically into all conference guys. They're just bad and would in all likelyhood be Riding the bench if our injury situation wasn't so dire. Instead we are fielding guys who have had almost no game experience at their positions. We have only one guy on our defense who will ever play on a sunday. (excluding a guy like demens who I've seen almost none of, but looked great against Iowa).

All in all, in our losses, it doesn't feel like coaching killed us, but turnovers and penalties, which are easy to correct. Our offense has only struggled when it has gotten careless. And our defense is just loaded with guys who are bad, and no amount of coaching will change that. It is too early in the year to predict how this will all play out, is the point. It's not like this was the master plan, that we'd lose every good DB we had before we left south bend.

Bottom Line, we're not losing because we can't get good players. We're losing because of injuries destroying the good players we have, and our offense making mistakes we can't afford without our guys out there. And besides, we've lost 2 games, it's not like we're 0-7. It feels dumb even saying "we're losing games", because the sample size is so small on the year.

[DanO]

"so is Michigan State."
-----------------I know.

GO LIONS "10" !!!!!!!!!!

[froot loops]

All in all, in our losses, it doesn't feel like coaching killed us, but turnovers and penalties, which are easy to correct.

Their defense has been putrid, this is the result of a 3 year overemphasis on that offense. The guy has been here three seasons, at some point you should have depth in the defense and shouldn't be so suseptible to injuries. As it is now, their defense has less depth than it did when he took over.

And while you may think the turnovers are correctable, I'm not sure they are. One of the problems with making an offense so QB-centric is that you tend to have bad turnovers.

[jaadam4]

U of M beating OSU? Give me a friggin break. MSU beat us very soundly and they arent half the team those assholes down in Columbus are. They have a great defense, a very good offense and one of the best coaches in the country.

[jaadam4]

Wouldnt it be friggin hilarious seeing Rich and ahole Millen doing play by plays?

[gjdodger]

Wouldnt it be friggin hilarious seeing Rich and ahole Millen doing play by plays?

Rich will resurface somewhere where he belongs. Like, within a half-day's drive of where I am.

[Desert Lion]

They've still got 300lb lineman, a solid stable of RBs and WRs. If they can't compete with a more conventional offense, then they just aren't very talented players.

Exactly. It is alot harder to teach players this current system than to take those same players and switch to a system the basically plays the game those kids leanred and played most of their young lives.

Say Harbaugh is the next coach. You think he would dump his current offense because Robinson isn't a classic drop back passer? Denard has made great strides over the last year to become a better passer, and any new coach with a more pro-set style O would keep him in there and also have some of the read-option type plays because of his skill-set. That said; like Main pointed out all the other O players have skills.

While I want UofM to do well and win every game, I suspect that if RRod doesn't win 9 he is a gonner. If he Wins 10 including a bowl game he will be here and will will really see if he can coach or not next year.

[LionsWolverines]

Their defense has been putrid, this is the result of a 3 year overemphasis on that offense. The guy has been here three seasons, at some point you should have depth in the defense and shouldn't be so suseptible to injuries. As it is now, their defense has less depth than it did when he took over.

And while you may think the turnovers are correctable, I'm not sure they are. One of the problems with making an offense so QB-centric is that you tend to have bad turnovers.

Show me a team with 4 of their top DBs injured and I'll show you a weak secondary, and if your quarterback can't stop throwing picks, he shouldn't be playing quarterback, and you need to find someone else. The kid is a true sophomore who didn't start a game last year, and it shows through from time to time. I'd hardly write it off as a permanent thing, at least not yet.

And I'm not worried about OSU's defense. We torched Iowa for 500+ with tate in, and they were statistically about as good as OSU(they're still 13th in total defense with 297.4 YPG despite our thrashing of them) Lewan turned clayborne into nobody special, and we moved the ball well. Our offense has only had problems when they've had bad penalties kill drives or turnovers.

OSU's offense however....well that's another story entirely.

Again I'm not saying we'll win, or even really expecting us to. But I don't think it's inconceivable, and I definitely don't think our offense is just going to suddenly start sucking.

[WingsFan]

jaadam did you see your boy Les after the LSU loss? Bo would have been proud.