U of M thread (in the Lions Forum) :)

[SeattleLionsFan]

Defense is defense though. And State has gotten some good kids from michigan lately on the defensive side that one could argue would have been more likely to go to UofM in the past.

I think maybe you are right, but that's in large part due to the "renaissance pipeline." I think RichRod is a little too flip with recruiting instate and Ohio in favor of Florida. IMO, although Michigan is relatively talent poor as far as football goes, that makes it more important to lock down the great recruits.

That said, State got its share of great Michigan kids in the past (Rogers, Duckett, etc).

[froot loops]

You can have a spread offense, but it can't be all about the offense. And you have to have a defense, it seems like all Michigan cares about is their offense. Defense and Special teams are an afterthought.

Sure the Detroit connection may be due to the renaissance pipeline. But the job of a coach is to get these pipelines established.

[froot loops]

That said, State got its share of great Michigan kids in the past (Rogers, Duckett, etc).

You named the vast majority of great kids in the state of Michigan that MSU outrecruited Michigan. There just wasn't that many. Basically when Michigan went up against State, they got the player. They would normally get the 1st 5 kids that they wanted. MSU would get the next few guys, who Michigan generally didn't want. Very few recruiting battles were won by State.

[Mainevent]

I just have a hard time seeing this offense ever being consistently successful in Oct/Nov against physical Big Ten defenses. They are going to get slowed down considerably (witness the Sparty game). And that means they need to have a defense that can keep games close. And they've shown no ability to put one together.

[jaadam4]

I never have understood why the fcuk we cant recruit a decent kicker. I mean lining up for a short FG or extra point should be the time you head to the bathroom to piss not praying that they make it.

[SeattleLionsFan]

Brendan gibbons was supposed to be a decent kicker and Hagerup is about the best in the country.

[Mainevent]

I never have understood why the fcuk we cant recruit a decent kicker. I mean lining up for a short FG or extra point should be the time you head to the bathroom to piss not praying that they make it.

They do have some great kickers. It's just that they seem to find one, he kicks for 3-4 years and then then have a lull for a couple of years until they find another one that's consistently good again.

[SeattleLionsFan]

You can have a spread offense, but it can't be all about the offense. And you have to have a defense, it seems like all Michigan cares about is their offense. Defense and Special teams are an afterthought.

Sure the Detroit connection may be due to the renaissance pipeline. But the job of a coach is to get these pipelines established.

I could bot agree more with either of your points.

Seems to me that scheme is largely irrelevant to long term success in the college ranks. The best teams and programs are those that execute at a high level week in and week out. With the turnover in college football, that takes a special set of qualifications.

Successful coaches will have their teams play good disciplined football in yeh scheme. They will also be able to recruit good talent and develop them into players quickly.

I think thus far Rich has been found lacking in all respects. He did find denard, but the Rbs are a joke.

The defense is awful, and although people like to blame the young secondary, they have two senior linebackers who blow. And it's not physical limitations. They just don't execute.

This is on the coach, and needs to be turned around.

[froot loops]

I'm not sure scheme can be entirely irrelevant, but you can make things work with specific schemes. But so far with Rodriguez, his particular offense is too QB-centric. His first year they didn't have a QB and the offense was terrible. Last year the offense was decent until Forcier started running into tougher teams and started making mistakes. This last game is being blame largely on a poor game by Robinson.

The problem is you can't rely on a QB to have mistake free games all the time so your team has a chance to win the game. They will make mistakes, there has to be other aspects of the team that can pick up the slack.

I keep on going back to Michigan under the previous coaches, they had a few seasons where they stuck freshman in at QB, successfully shielded these players and had good seasons. They could rely on a defense and a running game to take the pressure off of a green QB. This Michigan team has none of that, basically they were relying on Robinson to provide 45 points in order to win the game.

One other thing. Where is this superb conditioning that they are going after? I thought Lloyd Carr teams were a bunch of Pizza Eaters who didn't know how to do hang cleans. To me Michigan looks small and not any faster.

[Desert Lion]

How many Big Ten teams are going to hand Les Miles wins?

Les Miles is very very average with the luck of the fucking devil. Eventually, teams are going to stop handing him wins. No to Miles. God no to Miles.

JFC, I think I just had an epiphany, I actually whole-heartedly, unabashedly agree with Chemic!

And yes I'm sober and I lost my crack pipe a few weeks ago...8)

[SeattleLionsFan]

The big boys are clearly more nimble than they have been in the past and Martin had been a beast. They basically have no dine rotation.

That said, I agree with your point about it being to reliant on the qb. Although I don't know if that's a scheme issue or a lack of development issue.

[mason reese]

I think maybe you are right, but that's in large part due to the "renaissance pipeline." I think RichRod is a little too flip with recruiting instate and Ohio in favor of Florida. IMO, although Michigan is relatively talent poor as far as football goes, that makes it more important to lock down the great recruits.

That said, State got its share of great Michigan kids in the past (Rogers, Duckett, etc).

There were extenuating circumstances with both Rogers and Duckett; I don't know if I'd consider those recruiting "wins" for State vs UM.

[Masspartan]

Great point. i don't know that any teams using a spread offense will succeed in the college ranks!

I encourage MSU to use likelihood of going pro to recruit. State has had 2 players drafted in the past two years. Michigan has had 5.

In the sainted ones time at Cincinati, he had 5 players drafted. Even less than the 14 Rich got drafted.

Dantonio is a good coach. He has a well disciplined team that executes well. He seems to have returned MSU to respectability. But let's PLEASE not pretend he is something he is not.

I like the easy ones ...

First, I said BOTH teams could succeed, the fact that Michigan runs that spread just makes it easier for State to compete since we aren't chasing down the same talent.

Secondly, Dantonio was at Cincy from 2004 - 2006. So HIS recruits are the guys that Brian Kelly had great success with were recently drafted ... Gilyard, Pike etc ... more like 13 guys 2007 - 2010. Before that Cincy averaged about 1 guy being drafted per season. Certainly looks like an uptick to me.

Jeremy Ware ... the last Spartan player drafted was a John Looney Smith recruit.

We'll find out about Dantonio players going forward. I know at least 1 guy who will be drafted for sure. Greg Jones. Here are a few more guys who could ... Rucker, Gantt, Dell, Hyde, Bates, Gordon, Young, Stipek. Deane.

[froot loops]

Cousins will be drafted. Forman should be drafted.

[SeattleLionsFan]

Here I thought your argument was that dantonio molded these guys into pros. Not recruited pros.

The guys he coached at cinci sucked. Then a spread coach came in and they developed into pros.

The guys he coached at MSU didn't go pro either. But maybe this year.

He's a hell of a coach. He's not a molder of big time NFL drafted players. At least not so far. Don't get too far ahead is all I'm saying