Red Wings

[chemiclord]

I notice you conveniently left out the fact that they had the LOWEST shots AGAINST that year. Or that the Devils had a .692 record when outshot that season (as compared to a barely over .500 record when they outshot their opponents).

Hmmm... I wonder why... could it have maybe been because during games they outshot their opponents were usually games they were losing and had to abandon the trap style defense that was their trademark? Naw, THAT can't be it!

Oh, and what did that shooting net them? A 2.63 goals per game, good for a scintillating 14th in the league... in a league of 30 teams. Oh yeah, all those shots were lighting up the lamp, man! I wonder if their league leading 2.02 goals against were more important... naaah! It was the shots on goal for sure!

The Devils dominated with their defense. They were not a hot shooting team.

My contention stands: Shots on Goal are the most overrated stat in hockey.

[Rocky Bleier]

They get so many shots because they take shots that have no chance of scoring. They do it intentionally. It's their style.

Yeah, that's the Soviet puck-possession style they're known for playing.

[gjdodger]

I notice you conveniently left out the fact that they had the LOWEST shots AGAINST that year. Or that the Devils had a .692 record when outshot that season (as compared to a barely over .500 record when they outshot their opponents).

Hmmm... I wonder why... could it have maybe been because during games they outshot their opponents were usually games they were losing and had to abandon the trap style defense that was their trademark? Naw, THAT can't be it!

Oh, and what did that shooting net them? A 2.63 goals per game, good for a scintillating 14th in the league... in a league of 30 teams. Oh yeah, all those shots were lighting up the lamp, man! I wonder if their league leading 2.02 goals against were more important... naaah! It was the shots on goal for sure!

The Devils dominated with their defense. They were not a hot shooting team.

My contention stands: Shots on Goal are the most overrated stat in hockey.

1) I left it out because it didn't occur to me to look at it.
2) Last year, the Wings led the league in fewest shots on goal.
3) Therefore, "the Wings dominated with their defense. They were not a hot shooting team."

[froot loops]

Once again school is in session.

[Rocky Bleier]

The NHL suspended Sean Avery indefinitely Tuesday for inflammatory comments he made following a morning skate in Calgary, Alberta. This is what he said: "I am really happy to be back in Calgary, I love Canada. I just want to comment on how it's become like a common thing in the NHL for guys to fall in love with my sloppy seconds. I don't know what that's about. Enjoy the game tonight."

[Newbomb Turk]

well, he was bagging Rod Stewart's sloppies .... so I have no idea what that is about, either.

[chemiclord]

1) I left it out because it didn't occur to me to look at it.
2) Last year, the Wings led the league in fewest shots on goal.
3) Therefore, "the Wings dominated with their defense. They were not a hot shooting team."

Hmmm... let's see...

When outshot, the Wings had a .250 record.

When outshooting, the Wings had a .714 record.

Do you ever tire of your ignorance?

[Newbomb Turk]

they only took all those extra shots because they had the lead............

[Newbomb Turk]

they only took all those extra shots because they had the lead............

[froot loops]

So are you saying that when shots on goal are more, they are winning nearly 3/4s of their games? When they aren't they lose 3/4's of their games? Seems to me your theseis that SOG are overrated is in direct contrast to your skippy math.

[froot loops]

The funny thing about this argument is the shots on goal excuse is always used for the reason when they lose in the playoffs. Its either they are trying to be too fancy instead of putting pucks on the net. Or they are putting all these shots on net but not getting enough Quality chances.

[chemiclord]

I am saying that shots on goal are a lousy way to determine a team's dominance. It's the most deceptive and overrated stat in the game of hockey.

The Devils were a team that won games while being outshot. That was the style of play they used. They were actually at their worst when they were outshooting their opponents. That's my point.

The Wings are team that takes shots with no intention of scoring on those shots specifically. That's their style. Of course they are going to outshoot teams that way. That's not a sign of their dominance, that's a sign of their style of play. On a game per game basis, I prefer to look at scoring chances as a better (albeit still not completely effective) way to make that judgment. The Wings usually trump that stat as well, but not by quite as much as they do by shots on goal numbers.

The sign of the Wings dominance (as you yourself said) is hanging from the damn rafters, using their style of play effectively. It's not the only way to do it, and shots on goal certainly isn't the defining factor.

[chemiclord]

The problem with the Wings in the playoffs is that their style can help a goaltender "get in the groove" if you will. A lot of goalies will tell you that often the toughest job they have is to have few shots on net, because you don't stay quite as mentally sharp when the shots do come.

I have generally found the toughest goaltenders for the Wings to handle are the ones that do a very good job of containing shots and limiting rebounds (now to be fair, such goaltenders are difficult for ANY team to handle, merely the Wings moreso than most). A lot of their style is predicated on shots from the point getting deflected or rebounding to the players that crash the net on the shot. When a goaltender is limiting those things, it looks like the Wings aren't really trying to score. It's not true, of course.

[gjdodger]

Hmmm... let's see...

When outshot, the Wings had a .250 record.

When outshooting, the Wings had a .714 record.

Do you ever tire of your ignorance?

First off, I don't know what prompted the insult. I haven't been insulting you.

Secondly, that's a pretty meaninless statistic. The Wings were only outshot eight times the entire season. That doesn't seem to be a viable sample.

The Red Wings have been one of the league's dominant teams for many years; although they come up short frequently in the playoffs, they are invariably in the hunt for the President's Trophy, and win it as often as not. Over an 82 game schedule, they are typically the best, or second or third best, team in the League. And--they outshoot their opponents in almost every game, win or lose. That's because they're dominant. As I pointed out, your New Jersey Devils, when they were winning championships, also were among the league leaders in shots on goal, and they undoubtedly outshot their opponents in almost every game, since their average margin was 8.1 more shots than their opponents.

So all of this basically proves the point--shots on goal are not, as you say, a meaningless statistic; there is a direct correlation between shots on goal and success. You seem to be saying it is just a coincidence that the teams with the most shots on goal win the most games, and you're offering some subjective interpretation of the way those teams play as evidence. It's not.

[chemiclord]

So all of this basically proves the point--shots on goal are not, as you say, a meaningless statistic; there is a direct correlation between shots on goal and success. You seem to be saying it is just a coincidence that the teams with the most shots on goal win the most games, and you're offering some subjective interpretation of the way those teams play as evidence. It's not.

It's not a pure coincidence. But to say there's a direct correlation is also faulty. As I noted, the Devils during their heyday were at their best when being outshot. That was their style of play.

Shots on goal can be very misleading in the case of a team like the Red Wings. People look at the box score, see the Wings with a 35-15 edge and think they just blew their opponent out of the water, when in reality, the score ended 2-1 and 15 of the Wings shots went directly into the center of the goalie's chest. That's their style of play. It lends itself to high shot numbers. I say look to the scoring chances in that same game for a sign of their dominance, or even their puck possession numbers (which while also a sign of their play style demonstrates the skill of their players considerably better than simply shots on goal). Hell, look at the shots they allowed per game, which (granted not so much this year so far) was also obscene at times.

There are so many stats that demonstrate how good this team is. To hook onto and harp on one that is rather misleading just irks me, and really doesn't do the team due justice, especially when addressing fans of other teams.