Red Wings

[Malto Marko]

.....and it is 5 more years until Yzmerman takes over.

[jaadam4]

.....and it is 5 more years until Yzmerman takes over.

Is that Joe Montania's cousin?

[jaadam4]

Happy Birthday and Merry Christmas Dan Cleary!

Red Wings extend general manager Ken Holland through 2018
http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/555133

How the F is this possible?

[froot loops]

Becaue he's a good GM? Or was that a trick question?

[jaadam4]

Becaue he's a good GM? Or was that a trick question?

I love and respect what Holland has done for this team but his moves in recent years have been getting questionable especially with FA. Giving multi year deals to aging borderline players just looked like shit. I will say the young guys he drafted are giving this team hope.

I still think Nill will turn out to be one of the Nhl's best

[Malto Marko]

I still think Nill will turn out to be one of the Nhl's best

Bite your tongue young man!

.......actually I agree he will make Dallas a perennial contender.

[chemiclord]

Holland has done a decent job remaining a "playoff" team while building for the future. Personally, I think he and Babcock OVER-season their youngsters while clinging to over the hill vets that provide next to nothing.

I'm not overly impressed, but meh. He's done well enough shifting from the free spending era to the hard cap era. My biggest complaint remains not shedding the albatross of Johan Franzen when he had the chance. That contract WILL bite them in the ass.

[froot loops]

Holland has done a decent job remaining a "playoff" team while building for the future. Personally, I think he and Babcock OVER-season their youngsters while clinging to over the hill vets that provide next to nothing.

I'm not overly impressed, but meh. He's done well enough shifting from the free spending era to the hard cap era. My biggest complaint remains not shedding the albatross of Johan Franzen when he had the chance. That contract WILL bite them in the ass.

empashis added for Jad to read.

[jaadam4]

empashis added for Jad to read.

Agreed on them keeping the youngsters down on both Holland and Babcock but that's not really what irritates me with Holland. Its him signing MULTI YEAR deals to borderline players.

Take for example the year of the last lockout. Holland rushed to Sammy, Tootoo and Carlo Colaiacovo right before the freeze and signed them to multi year deals. We could have used all that extra money to over spend for quality FA (which Holland is striking out time and time again..) Some could be attributed to FA's not wanting to come to Detroit and play for Babcock but he's IMO the best coach in the league. He's the reason this team is still making the playoffs.

I say overspend to get the players you want and then let the young guys fill in the gaps. Cleary, Tootoo, Sammy etc etc can suck it

[froot loops]

Cleary is a Babcock guy. The one who is always campaigning for him is Babcock. How much clearer does it need to be with you?

[jaadam4]

F Cleary

[Malto Marko]

Agreed on them keeping the youngsters down on both Holland and Babcock but that's not really what irritates me with Holland. Its him signing MULTI YEAR deals to borderline players.

Take for example the year of the last lockout. Holland rushed to Sammy, Tootoo and Carlo Colaiacovo right before the freeze and signed them to multi year deals. We could have used all that extra money to over spend for quality FA (which Holland is striking out time and time again..) Some could be attributed to FA's not wanting to come to Detroit and play for Babcock but he's IMO the best coach in the league. He's the reason this team is still making the playoffs.

I say overspend to get the players you want and then let the young guys fill in the gaps. Cleary, Tootoo, Sammy etc etc can suck it

You example makes it visual about what you are talking about but, does not address his job as GM.

Before the lock out, Wings were on board with insisting that there needs to be accommodations for existing contracts (a Grandfather rule so to speak). That was not allowed and vets getting signed were treated as rookies under the new cap.

Hollands problem is learning how to put a squad together with a cap.

This wall will soon be experienced by a number of other NHL Franchises.

[froot loops]

Hollands problem is he's been dealing with low draft picks for a long time. He got by with drafting some gems in the late rounds. But that's a strategy that is hard to keep going.

Holland can't win with Jad, he praises Babcock incessantly for the teams accomplishments, all the while ripping Holland for relying on vets. But they are vets that Babcock wants and campaigns for. Babcock had a lot of influence on these signings that Jad cannot stop complaining about.

[froot loops]

pANDs

Holland has learned how to put together a team under the salary cap. 2008 is a testament to that, you know the year they won the Stanley Cup. He made a series of moves post lockout that set them up.

But they also had Lidstrom, he was a BFD. He's gone and other teams have learned how to deal with the salary cap so the free agent market isn't what it used to be.

[jaadam4]

pANDs

Holland has learned how to put together a team under the salary cap. 2008 is a testament to that

Before we continue down this rabbit hole don't think that I'm not appreciative to Hollands work throughout the the years, salary cap or not. He's been a good GM but don't discount the fact that he was surrounded by Scotty Bowman, Jim Nill, Stevie Y and the rest of the all star front office staff. I give him just as much credit for putting together his management team as I do his players but since that management team has left for bigger and better things so has his decision making process.

Holding back the youth is him AND Babcock but his signings have been extremely scary (I'm not bringing Cleary's name up) That 08 non salary cap team you speak of isnt a testament to what he did after the cap was in place it was before. Dats, Z, Franzen, Lids etc etc were already on the team. Dallas Drake was one of the reasons we won that cup but Holland didnt have to do much with what was in place.

Holland has been treading water for several years now. Certainly holding back the youth can attribute to that but his signings have made it clear the youth needs to step up or we're screwed. Going into last year no one was expecting the youth to step up including Holland or Babcock. What happens if they didn't thrive in the jobs they were forced into? We'd have been a top 5 pick and Holland wouldn't have gotten an extension. Holland was lucky last year.