Red Wings

[DanO]

Sorry. No choke. I'm a hardass on teams who are suppose to excel to a certain level. If they choked I'd be all over their ass. No Choke!

[Malto Marko]

Nothing matters what people though would happen. Reality is they were up 3-1 and lost the series, that is choking.


In the "they are who we thought they were" game between Arizona and the Bears - Arizona had the game won and choked, though everyone knew the Bears had a better team and didn't think the Cardinals had a chance.

Choke is a Choke, no other way to put it.

Totally disagee. It is a seven game series for a reason. You have to win 4. Just because the Wings won three in a row first then the Hawks answered it with three of their own does not make it a choke.

A choke is when your defensman scores a game winning goal for the opposition to allow them to stay alive.

A choke is when you are up by 3 goals going into the third period to shut out the team and they come back and score 4 to win.

A choke is when a team has been playing well and consistent then all of a sudden they have a moment of amateur hockey.

[WingsFan]

Fair enough, don't see how you guys don't think game 6 (3rd period lead @ home) then falling apart wasn't a total meltdown/choke? I wish I could have those good feelings guys, but I can't. Looked it up NHL teams up 3-1 win 93% of the time, Red Wings had a golden opportunity to advance to the Conference Finals up 3-1, but flopped into the 7% who lose. We may never see a chance like that ever again.

[Malto Marko]

Fair enough, don't see how you guys don't think game 6 (3rd period lead @ home) then falling apart wasn't a total meltdown/choke? I wish I could have those good feelings guys, but I can't. Looked it up NHL teams up 3-1 win 93% of the time, Red Wings had a golden opportunity to advance to the Conference Finals up 3-1, but flopped into the 7% who lose. We may never see a chance like that ever again.

The third period of the sixth game would definitely qualify as a choke period. I am looking at the three game series, not an individual period.

I am willing to make you a friendly bet that you will see the Wings up in the playoffs again 3-1 in the not too distant future. We can talk about if they will closed it out, then.

Edit: Since you looked it up, can you go back and see if the Wings were ever one of the 7% stat that came back from being down?

[chemiclord]

I have no problem saying that the Wings had a great run.

I have no problem saying that pushing the Blackhawks to OT in Game 7 was a pretty damn good season considering the low expectations to start.

But I also have no problem saying that no matter what the expectations or seeds of the teams playing, when you have the lead in an elimination game going into the third period, and you completely collapse... that's a choke.

[DanO]

"Red Wings had a golden opportunity to advance to the Conference Finals up 3-1, but flopped into the 7% who lose. We may never see a chance like that ever again."
---------------------------Yes they did and I was pretty pissed about it. I disagree with your last sentence. Not really sure what you mean there? The Wings need to tweek a little, and they could be very good again. They have some nice young players. I still have faith in Holland. What makes you think "we may never see a chance like that" again?

"The third period of the sixth game would definitely qualify as a choke period. I am looking at the three game series, not an individual period."
-------------------------Agreed.

"But I also have no problem saying that no matter what the expectations or seeds of the teams playing, when you have the lead in an elimination game going into the third period, and you completely collapse... that's a choke."
----------------------------------They didn't completely collapse. That's our difference I guess. They played the last three games very well except for one period. Completely collapse-----------COME ON!!!!

[WingsFan]

The third period of the sixth game would definitely qualify as a choke period.

That was an elimination game, you can't say ok they choked there but...

I am willing to make you a friendly bet that you will see the Wings up in the playoffs again 3-1 in the not too distant future.

What my point is they had the chance to knock out the favorite (by most) to win the cup and now Chicago is breezing its way to win the Cup IMO. L. A. looks terrible playing against Chicago and they haven't won a game on the road in the playoffs. Chicago should put them away in 5

[Malto Marko]

I have no problem saying that the Wings had a great run.

I have no problem saying that pushing the Blackhawks to OT in Game 7 was a pretty damn good season considering the low expectations to start.

But I also have no problem saying that no matter what the expectations or seeds of the teams playing, when you have the lead in an elimination game going into the third period, and you completely collapse... that's a choke.

Yes, that is a choke of one period of one game. That leaves 8 other periods of 3 games.

Losing that one game/period was not the difference maker in the series.

Now, if that same scenario was in a game 7 at home, then, I would say they choked.

.......Oh, wait. I am still having nightmares about Cindys team a few years back in the Finals, but am getting great satisfaction of Boston puttin a whoppin on them right now.

[WingsFan]

They didn't completely collapse. That's our difference I guess.

Ha! You win or you lose a series up 3-1 I don't get how they didn't ??

[WingsFan]

I am still having nightmares about Cindys team a few years back in the Finals, but am getting great satisfaction of Boston puttin a whoppin on them right now.

Yea that is helping :-) but I just can't take watching Chicago beating up on L A when we had them.

[DanO]

"Now, if that same scenario was in a game 7 at home, then, I would say they choked. "
------------------------Yep, Yep, Yep!!!

[chemiclord]

They didn't completely collapse. That's our difference I guess. They played the last three games very well except for one period. Completely collapse-----------COME ON!!!!

Uh... did you watch that period?

They couldn't have stunk it up worse at that critical moment if they had TRIED.

[WingsFan]

Yes they did and I was pretty pissed about it. I disagree with your last sentence. Not really sure what you mean there? The Wings need to tweek a little, and they could be very good again. They have some nice young players. I still have faith in Holland. What makes you think "we may never see a chance like that" again?

I don't see the 'core' to make a good run for a long while with just a tweek. This was really an improbable run (until the last 3 games) is why people are not upset (about the choke). Players are not lining up to play for Detroit anymore.

[chemiclord]

I don't see the 'core' to make a good run for a long while with just a tweek. This was really an improbable run (until the last 3 games) is why people are not upset (about the choke). Players are not lining up to play for Detroit anymore.

They have about a 2-3 year window, I suspect, before the core of Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Kronwall, etc. finally have age catch up to them. Sure, Franzen and Kronwall will likely hit that wall sooner because of the way they play, but I think 2-3 more years is a decent enough estimate.

In that sense, sure... some tweaks to the supporting cast (especially with some more depth on defense and another power forward) could win another Cup within that window.

Now BEYOND that... I dunno. That's a question of will the young players that are just now starting to break into the Wings rotation be up to filling the void left like Datsyuk and company did when Yzerman and company hung it up.

I'm not nearly as confident about that.

[Malto Marko]

I don't see the 'core' to make a good run for a long while with just a tweek. This was really an improbable run (until the last 3 games) is why people are not upset (about the choke). Players are not lining up to play for Detroit anymore.

Well, I guess you could say DeKeyser didn't line up to play for Detroit, he just said OK.

When Wings could buy players, they did. It pissed off the rest of the league and made it more difficult.

Wings are no longer giving up their first round draft picks to acquire a player they need today. The cap has made them change the way they procure the talent they need.

They have one of the best, if not the best, developmental systems in the NHL.

I too, have (renewed) faith in Holland. He had to change game plans and it could not be done over night. He is 1/2 to 3/4 there and is still competing.

He will be moving to a different Conference next year. This will require a different team make up than we have been used to. I am confident the powers that be in the East are going to hate the fact the Wings are now in their way.

He deserves a bonus for all the dynamics he is having to deal with.