Red Wings

[CaptainBlue]

1. Franzen is getting paid to score goals. He got huge 11 year contract precisely because of his playoff goals, I mean, have you watched the Wngs in the past? He was clueless on the second goal defensively. He's their power forward, he needs to be in front of the net scoring.

2. Yes, Datsyuk and Zetterberg are doing a great job on those guys. It is working, they are in this series because those guys have done a tremendous job defensively. Most of the series Toews has been a non factor because of Zetterberg. Toews did not score until game 5, he has a whopping 1 goal and 3 assists. You do realize this, right?

3. Its a novice mistake to say that either Zetterberg or Datsyuk have to score for them to win. Thats something talking heads play up. For the Wings to win, they need to play better defense. You don't need any other bullet point, they need to be better on their own end. They cannot be out of position. They have to be prepared to win a 1-0 game and the goal might come from some 4th liner.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg are getting paid even more money to score goals.

Toews has dominated them all series. He may not have many points, but he's been controlling the puck. Howard has been lights out.

[froot loops]

Thats so rookie, you're better off making the utterly laughable "Lidstrom is overrated" case

[chemiclord]

Toews/Kane and Zetterberg/Datsyuk have largely been a wash (maybe a slight edge to Chicago), which is really the best the Wings could realistically hope for. Toews and Kane are both pretty much in their prime and Zetterberg and Datsyuk well... aren't.

What has killed Detroit is their defense past Kronwall and Ericsson. The bottom 4 d-men for Detroit have had long spells where they have been absolutely PUTRID, and it cost them in Game 1 and Game 6. Chicago hasn't had nearly as many mental lapses on defense, which is fortunate because Crawford has been pretty badly outplayed by Howard this series.

Franzen has been nothing short of a disappointment, and the Wings are fortunate that Hossa hasn't exactly been lighting the lamp either.

[Malto Marko]

Nope.

The difference here is when in Detroit, Toews and Kane get to ride the bus or be chauffeured. There are few cabbies for them to rob (then get incarcerated).

Toews/Kane and Zetterberg/Datsyuk have largely been a wash (maybe a slight edge to Chicago), which is really the best the Wings could realistically hope for. Toews and Kane are both pretty much in their prime and Zetterberg and Datsyuk well... aren't.

The slight edge comes from play on the back end ..........and NOT Howard.

Age means nothing here. Neither Wing has lost a step.

[chemiclord]

That's why I say a wash for the most part. Toews and Kane have provided a little bit more offensively, but Zetterberg and Datsyuk have been better defensively. If I HAD to give an edge, it would be to the Chicago pair because at the end of the day, the scoreboard is what matters.

[Malto Marko]

Toews/Kane and Zetterberg/Datsyuk have largely been a wash (maybe a slight edge to Chicago), which is really the best the Wings could realistically hope for. Toews and Kane are both pretty much in their prime and Zetterberg and Datsyuk well... aren't.

What has killed Detroit is their defense past Kronwall and Ericsson. The bottom 4 d-men for Detroit have had long spells where they have been absolutely PUTRID, and it cost them in Game 1 and Game 6. Chicago hasn't had nearly as many mental lapses on defense, which is fortunate because Crawford has been pretty badly outplayed by Howard this series.

Franzen has been nothing short of a disappointment, and the Wings are fortunate that Hossa hasn't exactly been lighting the lamp either.

Yup. What I was saying to Cap 'cept.......Hossa is always absent in the playoffs. I am guessing because he thinks the season is over and there are not enough zeros on his check.

[froot loops]

Always is a strong word, Detroit rode him in the 2009 playoffs. But for most of his career he has been a no show in the playoffs

[Tony G]

^ Absolutes often lead to trouble

[Malto Marko]

Always is a strong word, Detroit rode him in the 2009 playoffs. But for most of his career he has been a no show in the playoffs

True. But riding him into the playoffs, he did not deliver.

Don't quote me stats. Quote me successes.

[froot loops]

Huh? Riding him meant they rode him to the finals as he was their best player offensively. Don't quote you stats? Thats a nice way to dismiss evidence if it runs contrary to your worldview. I count getting to the Stanley Cup finals as a success. Its not about quoting stats anyway, all you had to do was watch those games. Neither the Ducks nor the Hawks could stop Hossa. And he was doing that all while injured with a seperated shoulder which required surgery. That is the definition of delivering.

Surely Marian Hossa didn't make Brad Stuart commit a horribly bad pinch in game 7 nor did he make Jiri Hudler stand in quicksand in game 7.

Saying always is dangerous especially when its patently false.

[Malto Marko]

Huh? Riding him meant they rode him to the finals as he was their best player offensively. Don't quote you stats? Thats a nice way to dismiss evidence if it runs contrary to your worldview. I count getting to the Stanley Cup finals as a success. Its not about quoting stats anyway, all you had to do was watch those games. Neither the Ducks nor the Hawks could stop Hossa. And he was doing that all while injured with a seperated shoulder which required surgery. That is the definition of delivering.

Surely Marian Hossa didn't make Brad Stuart commit a horribly bad pinch in game 7 nor did he make Jiri Hudler stand in quicksand in game 7.

Saying always is dangerous especially when its patently false.

Nice post.

Understood but, from a coaching standpoint, (way lower than the NHL) I have seen players with few stats play over everyone else on the ice.

OK, so Stats are the numbers that drive contracts.

Hossa is only a regular season contributor and if they awarded premiums on contracts to those that bring it in the playoffs, he would be just another player on the ice.

[froot loops]

He hasn't been only a regular season contributor. thats the big flaw in your argument. If yiu want to argue there have been many playoffs where he's not been a factor, thats fine. But in 2008 with the Penguins he had 26 points in 20 playoff games. You said he was always absent, that is hardly absent. That is delivering, that is showing up I don't care what sport or level you coach anybody who scores 12 goals in 20 games in a playoff run is delivering. He was the best offensive player for the Wings for their 2009 playoff run, all you had to do was watch the series with the Ducks and Hawks. And he was an integral part of that Hawks Cup winning team.

[DanO]

"We need Franzen to wake up."
----------------------I think this may be the key to the game tonight.

"I'd be fine with Datsyuk and Zetterberg just shadowing Toews and Kane if it was working, but it's not. They've done a very poor job of it.
------------------------------Holy Cow. They won games 2, 3, and 4 because of it. WoW.

[DanO]

Wings win 2-1 btw........................

[CaptainBlue]

Re: Red Wings

Wings win 2-1 btw........................

I really hope you're right.