Red Wings

[Malto Marko]

Chemiclord re: the fight scene:

LOL!

[jaadam4]

Whats the deal with the fist bumps MM?

[jaadam4]

The NHL draft evaluators destroyed the Wings draft. According to an article in the freep scouts had several "who the hell is that" moments.

Holland just needs to go away

[jaadam4]

Sorry it was the news not the freep



The list of those who were less than impressed with the Red Wings? work at the NHL draft this past weekend appears to be deep.

Greg Wyshynski of Yahoo! Sports called the Red Wings? draft crop the weakest in the NHL, and he wasn?t alone in panning Detroit?s selections. The Red Wings also made the ?loser? list at ESPN, NBC Sports, and SB Nation.
The Wings had 11 picks in the seven-round draft, including four in the third round. That matched the New Jersey Devils for second-most in the draft, behind the expansion Vegas Golden Knights (12).
?Once known for their draft-day steals and magnificent prospect development, the Wings have hit a snag in recent years,? writes Andrew Knoll for ESPN. ?That finally manifested at the top level, where they snapped their quarter-century streak of playoff berths last season. This draft might not be the one to turn things around, despite the Wings making 11 selections.?

Knoll quotes Dennis MacInnis, the director of International Scouting Services, saying, ?They just took a lot of guys that all the scouts were looking at each other and saying, ?Who?? ?
James O?Brien of NBC Sports shared Wyshynski?s sentiments, similarly gathering that ?some believe that their draft was the worst of them all, which isn?t great considering the declining opinion of GM Ken Holland overall.?
Pat Iversen of SB Nation singled out the Wings? top pick, Michael Rasmussen, calling the center ?the first red flag? of the Wings? draft, preferring center Gabriel Vilardi instead.
The Wings took Rasmussen with the No. 9 pick. Vilardi went to the Los Angeles Kings at No. 11.
?Neither are 200-foot players at this point, but Rasmussen?s 5-on-5 numbers indicate he might be much more one-dimensional going forward,? Iversen wrote. ?He?s their top center prospect now, but if they had drafted both then Vilardi would be far ahead of him. I didn?t get it.?

The Wings didn?t get much better in Iversen?s view on Day 2.
?Detroit spent Day 2 taking a bunch of different players with different skill-sets, but none that stand out as impressive selections,? Iversen wrote. ?This might be a decent base to your rebuild, but other teams (New Jersey, Los Angeles) came away with better rebuild returns than Detroit.?
It hasn?t been all bad for the Red Wings, however. Bleacher Report gave the Wings? draft a B-plus, and ESPN?s Corey Pronman gave it a B-minus (pay site), though he writes he wasn?t thrilled with the Wings? output given their number of selections.
?... In the middle of the Wings? class they targeted a lot of boring, low-upside types that just don?t do a lot for me,? wrote Pronman, who also thought Rasmussen might have been picked too high. ?For the amount of picks the Wings had, they could have done more, and they don?t seem to be drafting like the skill/IQ Wings of the days of yore.?

[chemiclord]

Chemiclord re: the fight scene:

Chemiclord is not appalled in the slightest.

I don't give one tenth of one shit about hockey players fighting. Just don't feed me bullshit that fighting "polices" dirty play as a weak justification for its existence. It doesn't. It never has. It never will.

[Malto Marko]

Chemiclord is not appalled in the slightest.

I don't give one tenth of one shit about hockey players fighting. Just don't feed me bullshit that fighting "polices" dirty play as a weak justification for its existence. It doesn't. It never has. It never will.

You can't say that.

Why?

Because it is only possible to bring to light when it didn't. You have no way of knowing how many times it did.

[chemiclord]

I can say with 100% confidence that goons were never at any point deterred from taking a cheap shot because someone might try to fight them later. There was absolutely no way in hell they weren't going to do what they were literally paid to do because someone else would punch them for it.

So yes, I CAN say that... and your wistful remembrances of how it was at your beloved amateur levels is a terrible and insignificant counter to the realities of the professional level. You're wrong, period.

[jaadam4]

I can say with 100% confidence that goons were never at any point deterred from taking a cheap shot because someone might try to fight them later. There was absolutely no way in hell they weren't going to do what they were literally paid to do because someone else would punch them for it. You insisting that it was a deterrent at the amateur levels doesn't change the fact that the NHL is an entirely different animal.

Just stop while you're still behind.

100%!!! Mmmmmmmm.. While you have a good argument I'd be willing to bet the farm that MANY MANY NHL players / goons didn't take a run at Stevie Y because they knew damn well that Probie would be coming for them.

Did he ever get run at or messed with... Absolutely, he's a hockey player.

Was that number severely cut down with Probert in a Wings sweater? Fuck yeah, without question

[Malto Marko]

100%!!! Mmmmmmmm.. While you have a good argument I'd be willing to bet the farm that MANY MANY NHL players / goons didn't take a run at Stevie Y because they knew damn well that Probie would be coming for them.

Did he ever get run at or messed with... Absolutely, he's a hockey player.

Was that number severely cut down with Probert in a Wings sweater? Fuck yeah, without question

This is mostly my point but of course, unprovable.

Chemi, my observations do not come from a skewed allegiance to a game I embrace but rather the understanding of the fabric of a hockey player.

Every sport is different and about the only commonality to each sport is the participants burning desire to play and compete.

I think we can all agree that the mindset of football players is different than those who play baseball as well as those who play basketball and so on and so on.

I have had the pleasure of seeing how hockey influences young men and women and have come to learn the commonality of skill and respect that they have.

I will not back down from my position that not only is fighting a necessary entertainment for hockey at the highest levels but, it is necessary for team self enforcement.

[chemiclord]

100%!!! Mmmmmmmm.. While you have a good argument I'd be willing to bet the farm that MANY MANY NHL players / goons didn't take a run at Stevie Y because they knew damn well that Probie would be coming for them.

Did he ever get run at or messed with... Absolutely, he's a hockey player.

Was that number severely cut down with Probert in a Wings sweater? Fuck yeah, without question

The argument has never been about general players lashing out in a fit of frustration, no matter how much Malto has wanted to turn it that way with his wistful recollections of the good ol' days. That sort of back and forth that led to fights has always been a part of the game. That boiling over is part and parcel of the show.

It's always been about the "goons" in the league, the people who are on an NHL roster for the largely unspoken but obvious purpose of making sure a troublesome player on the other team "felt it."

And those guys? The ones that posed an intentional danger to Yzerman and other major players? They didn't give one flying fuck that Probert was going to come after them after the fact. They were effectively NHL hitmen, and they were going to do their job.

[Malto Marko]

The argument has never been about general players lashing out in a fit of frustration, no matter how much Malto has wanted to turn it that way with his wistful recollections of the good ol' days. That sort of back and forth that led to fights has always been a part of the game. That boiling over is part and parcel of the show.

It's always been about the "goons" in the league, the people who are on an NHL for the largely unspoken but obvious purpose of making sure a troublesome player on the other team "felt it."

And those guys? The ones that posed an intentional danger to Yzerman and other major players? They didn't give one flying fuck that Probert was going to come after them after the fact. They were effectively NHL hitmen, and they were going to do their job.

It's kinda like the kid in your class that used to try to get attention by banging his head on the desk.

It wasn't the smartest way to achieve a goal but it was effective.

Same can be said about NHL goons.

Todays goon must also be able to compete on a 3rd or 4th line instead of just going out and cruisin on the ice to the intended target like the (good ;)) ole days.

[jaadam4]

my observations do not come from a skewed allegiance to a game I embrace but rather the understanding of the fabric of a hockey player.

Who knew MM was so poetic?

[jaadam4]

It's kinda like the kid in your class that used to try to get attention by banging his head on the desk.

It wasn't the smartest way to achieve a goal but it was effective.

You're on a roll today

[chemiclord]

It's kinda like the kid in your class that used to try to get attention by banging his head on the desk.

It wasn't the smartest way to achieve a goal but it was effective.

Same can be said about NHL goons.

Todays goon must also be able to compete on a 3rd or 4th line instead of just going out and cruisin on the ice to the intended target like the (good ;)) ole days.

Yes, but that's more because GMs finally realized, "Holy shit, we're actually hurting our team having this guy who barely knows which end of the stick goes on the ice on the roster."

Nowadays, what happens more is that any given goon sits on a minor league roster, then is brought up for a day or two, then sent back down after he's done his damage.

[Malto Marko]

Nowadays, what happens more is that any given goon sits on a minor league roster, then is brought up for a day or two, then sent back down after he's done his damage.

......and the steak dinner and bar tab is on the Captain.