Red Wings

[WingsFan]

How sad is it that im watching Toronto vs Washington Capitals in 2OT and (almost) miss Mike Babcock?

[jaadam4]

Its not sad one bit. Babcock was the reason this team kept plugging along after the salary cap was implemented. The only thing he couldn't cover up was the complete lack of shit he had to work with after Lids and Rafalski retired, Brad Stuart wanted to move back west and Mathieu Schneider left as a FA.

We lost a ton of D talent and got nothing in return besides an aging Kronwall.

[Malto Marko]

Its not sad one bit. Babcock was the reason this team kept plugging along after the salary cap was implemented. The only thing he couldn't cover up was the complete lack of shit he had to work with after Lids and Rafalski retired, Brad Stuart wanted to move back west and Mathieu Schneider left as a FA.

We lost a ton of D talent and got nothing in return besides an aging Kronwall.

Get out of here.

They invested in their future by signing Franzen to a long term contract and let Hossa walk.

Losing Nil and Bowman was not a feather in their cap either.

[froot loops]

They were pretty good with the salary cap going into it, the 2008 Cup winner was a result of the shrewd management of the cap going into the lockout. They were able to make some really good signings. The Franzen contract, letting Hossa walk was the line of demarcation, after that Holland lost his mind with those conrracts.

I will say this about Holland, he wasn't the first GM to lose his touch. Successful general managers will eventually have the game pass them by. Teams will copy whatever strategy you were using or the GM won't adapt. Also some of this is just plain luck, luck is probably a lot larger than anyone wants to admit. Dumas was a genius until he wasn't.

[jaadam4]

Losing Nil and Bowman was not a feather in their cap either.

Add Stevie Y in there as well but yes these were very big losses. Especially the Bowman departure.

[jaadam4]

The Franzen contract, letting Hossa walk was the line of demarcation, after that Holland lost his mind with those contracts.

This

[froot loops]

You are supposed to lose guys like Nill, Bowman and Steve Y. Bowman's son was running things in Chicago and he is a wanderer. Nill and Yzerman were going to want to spread their wings. You need to be able to hire new guys. It is essential. Keeping the band together isn't a guarantee for anything.

They need new blood, the salary cap situation looks dire as it stands but it would immediately improve with a new GM that has no connection to these players. These bad contracts are hard to move because of the size and length of them. However that isn't 100 percent of the reason. Ken Holland still believes in the players and the contracts.

[jaadam4]

Thats a solid point.

Im still pissed Gallant wont be behind the bench next year. He got a raw deal in FL. He would have been the next good coach behind the bench. Before we got Babcock to come to the D, Lewis was screwing things up.

Lewis > Blashit

[Tom]

froot is right. Holland made good moves to win the Cup in 08. Hell, they should have won in 09 too.

Holland fell into the trap that most successful GMs fall into. They keep doing the things that made them successful and don't deviate from that. He continued to sign over the hill vets to complement the core talent. The problem is that the core talent is no longer Yzerman, Fedorov, and Lidstrom. Now it's aging Zetterberg, very green Larkin, AA, and Mantha, and a broken down Kronwall. The free agents he signs can't carry the load and they don't have super talented players to lean on.

[froot loops]

Exactly right, some of these signings and contracts wouldn't be as bad if these guys were only needed to be role plqyers.

The thing about the Wings is this was bound to happen, they defied gravity for far longer than most successful franchises. So long that they deluded themselves into thinking that they had some special way to avoid the downturns. Even now too many fans and media members are looking back to what went wrong. Even the organization is making comments about trying to get back to the playoffs ASAP. That's the wrong approach. What is done is done, figure out the players you want to rebuild witb, bring up your young guys to figure out who can play and clear out the rest. No more Franz Nielsen signings, find a young guy who can get 41 points, you shouldn't be paying 6 million for that.

Unfortunately with Holland in charge, none of this is feasible. At this point he would be a better GM somewhere else. He is too anchored to these players and prospects. They need new sets of eyes.

[Malto Marko]

Even now too many fans and media members are looking back to what went wrong. Even the organization is making comments about trying to get back to the playoffs ASAP. That's the wrong approach. What is done is done, figure out the players you want to rebuild witb, bring up your young guys to figure out who can play and clear out the rest. No more Franz Nielsen signings, find a young guy who can get 41 points, you shouldn't be paying 6 million for that.

Unfortunately with Holland in charge, none of this is feasible. At this point he would be a better GM somewhere else. He is too anchored to these players and prospects. They need new sets of eyes.

Yup. But, it has to start with Holland getting his farewell season, announcing that it is time for him to gracefully retire as he ushers in a new era and new building.

Throw the bank at The Captain and lets get this party started again.

[jaadam4]

We're not devout of talent at the forward positions. We have enough young guys in the system that can be given the opportunity to advance. I'm not saying we have the next big thing but we have talent.

The problem is we don't have any defensemen that can be a #1 or #2 guy. That's a BIG problem. Not having puck moving defensemen that aren't complete liabilities on defense are difficult to find and we haven't developed any since Kronwall.

Holland is a moron for the contracts given out but not having defense is the demise of this team. Our team drafted forwards that fit the mold of a puck possession team but we don't have the backend to complete to puzzle.

While Tomas Jurco is a moron for talking crap about the city of Detroit his words about the Wings lack of style of the system should ring loud and clear. He basically said Detroit is a dump and chase team that has no direction. We just don't have the D to be anything but right now and that's a systemic problem without any future answer

[jaadam4]

And the one home run of a prospect that we could of had Holland traded away the pick to get rid of Dats contract that he caused..

JAKOB CHYCHRUN is 6'3 and a friggin awesome defensemen. He's 19 years old and played 68 games last year scoring 8 goals with 13 assists on a shit Yotes team.

But of course Holland wanted to swing for the fences and sign Stamkos to extend the playoff streak but he didn't even get to the fucking table with him. Couldn't even get a meeting before he resigned with TB.

MORON.

[FVD]

There's an article on Deadspin that might send your blood pressure through the roof, jaadam. Call that a disclaimer but it's a good read and shows how clueless Holland is:

http://deadspin.com/the-dynasty-that-ate-itself-1794385282

[WingsFan]

Blackhawks sweep lol first round