Red Wings

[froot loops]

Holland isn't the head of the organization, Mike or Chris Ilitch is. It is more than just Holland. Devellano has his Ilitch's ear. This is how they do things, they are in lockstep. Sure if you fired Holland there is a chance the organizaonal philosophy changes but I doubt it. It is why there is no whispers or rumors that Holland is in trouble. The Wings have for 25 years loved to rely on old guys.

The Wings are very proud of 25 straight years in the playoffs. It isn't just Holland.

[Whitley]

One argument for getting a Stamkos is that you could pair him with Larkin. Doing that would allow the Wings to reduce the minutes for Dats and Hank which should be done at their age.

[chemiclord]

Holland isn't the head of the organization, Mike or Chris Ilitch is. It is more than just Holland. Devellano has his Ilitch's ear. This is how they do things, they are in lockstep. Sure if you fired Holland there is a chance the organizaonal philosophy changes but I doubt it. It is why there is no whispers or rumors that Holland is in trouble. The Wings have for 25 years loved to rely on old guys.

The Wings are very proud of 25 straight years in the playoffs. It isn't just Holland.

That IS true, and why you won't see any front office changes until that streak ends.

But while both Illitches are awfully petty, neither of them are particularly meddlers. If for whatever reason Holland decided to retire tomorrow, whoever they hired to fill his shoes would be allowed to run that ship the way they want it with little, if any, interference.

It's why Ausmus is still managing the Tigers, for chrissake. Had he been the meddling owner you claim he is, Ron Gardenhire would be in that dugout right now.

So while you're right that the entire ship is in lockstep, Holland's the one at the helm. Not Mike, not Chris, not Devellano. Until he's gone, nothing will change.

[froot loops]

Mike Ilitch has meddled plenty in both the Tigers and Red Wings. A lot of the big moves with both teams were at his urging. If the Ilitchs were unhappy, Holland would be gone. His seat isn't even warm.

[Whitley]

That IS true, and why you won't see any front office changes until that streak ends.

But while both Illitches are awfully petty, neither of them are particularly meddlers. If for whatever reason Holland decided to retire tomorrow, whoever they hired to fill his shoes would be allowed to run that ship the way they want it with little, if any, interference.

It's why Ausmus is still managing the Tigers, for chrissake. Had he been the meddling owner you claim he is, Ron Gardenhire would be in that dugout right now.

So while you're right that the entire ship is in lockstep, Holland's the one at the helm. Not Mike, not Chris, not Devellano. Until he's gone, nothing will change.

I doubt it. I have hard time seeing Gardenhire giving the analytic guys the time of day. And Avila is a guy that wants more analysis in the decision making.

Holland is going to have to make some moves this offseason. No doubt about it. Probably on the trade market especially if he is looking for defenseman.

[Whitley]

Mike Ilitch has meddled plenty in both the Tigers and Red Wings. A lot of the big moves with both teams were at his urging. If the Ilitchs were unhappy, Holland would be gone. His seat isn't even warm.

True with the Tigers---Illitch was major force behind signing Pudge and Ordonez. Came to DD about getting Cabrera. Told Al Avila they could use Justin Upton.

[chemiclord]

Mike Ilitch has meddled plenty in both the Tigers and Red Wings. A lot of the big moves with both teams were at his urging. If the Ilitchs were unhappy, Holland would be gone. His seat isn't even warm.

What Illitch has done isn't generally meddling, but more "money isn't an object." The only move that I can think of that Illitch pushed for that Dombrowski wasn't exactly keen on was the acquisition of Prince Fielder. Pretty much every other one was Dombrowski saying, "I'd like to make this move, but it would increase our payroll." If Chris balked, Dombrowski knew Mike would say yes.

Dave Dombrowski had pretty much total freedom to run his team the way he wanted it. Holland is the exact same way. The Illitchs may not have any problem with the way Holland is running the team, but they aren't telling him how to do it, either. The direction is his. He's the man at the helm. He's the one that has to go first and foremost before any change can hope to occur.

I'm sorry, Froot. I know the truth hurts your nostalgia. It makes you feel bad because you want to respect the architect of the Wings' revival. But it's time to put him to pasture. You can stop apologizing for him anytime.

(And yes, you're apologizing for him, even as you deny it.)

[WingsFan]

Nice stump speech today from LLLLoyd Ken Holland - Red Wing fans should expect less from this team now... There is no magic wand... And it's more exciting too! Whoopee!

[jaadam4]

lol seriously? He really said we SHOULD expect less? Does that mean merchandise and tickets SHOULD be reduced in price?

[froot loops]

I was just in Kroger, the Red Wing commemorative t-shirt celebrating 25 straight years was at a reduced rate. $9.99, going fast. Do you want me to pick you up one Jad?

[Drew]

They could become a collector's item next Spring.

[froot loops]

In my opinion way too much has been made of the cap. It was a convenient excuse, the pro scouting has been dreadful the last 10 years. In the 90s and 00s the Wings were great at finding cheap players to contribute. Maltby, Sheppard, Draper, Yseabart, Samuelson and Cleary are some of the guy's they picked up cheaply that were instrumental in their success. They were able to find those contributors. They were able to trade prospects for good veterans.

Nowadays both of those avenues have dried up. In fact the free agents they have signed in the last 6 to 7 years have hurt then because they have blocked young guys, taken up cap space and we're not contributors.

[Malto Marko]

Paying Franzen to have concussion problems.....but wait.... he has hands that can score, ....and Goaltending that did good but, is not so good now, seems to be a problem.

Sure glad the decision was made to keep Franzen over Hossa. Looks great on the resume that says don't keep expecting things. It is hard......

[jaadam4]

I was just in Kroger, the Red Wing commemorative t-shirt celebrating 25 straight years was at a reduced rate. $9.99, going fast. Do you want me to pick you up one Jad?

lol... oh man, i sure hope you're kidding thats even a tshirt.

[froot loops]

I'll see if I can take a picture of it tomorrow, unless there is a run on them at Kroger. I am not kidding.