Red Wings

[froot loops]

Yeah but you'd take Millen over Holland.

[Tom]

Yzerman's done a nice job but he hasn't really accomplished anything yet. It's kind of like saying Mayhew has been able to fill some holes on the Lions.

I don't think this would even be brought up if it was someone other than Yzerman.

[Malto Marko]

Yzerman's done a nice job but he hasn't really accomplished anything yet. It's kind of like saying Mayhew has been able to fill some holes on the Lions.

I don't think this would even be brought up if it was someone other than Yzerman.

You are correct about me wondering about this if it was someone other than Yzerman.

For the long term however, I would prefer to thank Kenny for his work and let him gracefully slip into retirement and let the young tiger take over.

You are also correct that he has not had major playoff success yet but it is just a matter of time until he is successful in the post season.

[Tom]

I know Edmonton fans who said Kevin Lowe would have the Oilers dominating the NHL once the salary cap was in place.

I think most teams around the NHL would love to see the Wings dump Holland. And a bunch of them would be waiting to scoop him up.

[jaadam4]

Do you guys think Babcock will be back with Detroit? I'm on the fence with this one but I'm leaning to him coming back to Detroit. Toronto is a joke, Babcock likes to win and won't want a project. Edmonton and Pittsburg are intriguing.

If he does bolt Jeff Blashill definitely gives us a really good option with the core of our young guys being the players he developed. He's a winner in the minors but is he ready for the NHL?

[jaadam4]

Not exactly the best thing to hear about some of our top end talent. I'm really surprised Jim Devellano was so negative on Mantha.


The Grand Rapids Griffins, the Red Wings' top minor-league affiliate, rallied from an 0-2 deficit to win their opening-round Calder Cup series and extend their season. But the reviews are mixed regarding the development of several players the Wings are banking on for the future.
The defense looks strong, with several players coming. But up front most of the franchise's best prospects are already in Detroit. And one player, former No. 1 pick Anthony Mantha, has not come close to meeting expectations.
"Very, very, very disappointing," said Wings Senior Vice President Jim Devellano, who saw the Griffins play their final three games, including Sunday's 3-1 win, over the Toronto Marlies. "And I say that with a lot of sadness. Coming out of junior, we had such high hopes for him."
In his first professional season after a splendid junior career, Mantha, a 6-foot-5, 195-pound left wing, had 15 goals and 33 points in 62 games in the regular season. He has one assist in five playoff games.
On the brighter side, after leading the American Hockey League in goal-scoring this season with 34, left wing Teemu Pulkkinen picked up where he left with six goals in five playoff games. That's 40 goals in 51 AHL games this season. He had five goals and eight points in 31 games in Detroit this season. Pulkkinen is a pure shooter with an overpowering shot, and the Wings hope his success in the AHL will translate into a 20-25 goal-scorer in the NHL.
The Wings also have been impressed with the play of center Tomas Nosek, a defensive specialist who scored 11 goals and 34 points and finished a team-leading plus-30 in 55 games this season.
"He's a terrific young two-way player -- a 200-foot player," Devellano said of Nosek, a 22-year-old Czech who should find his way to Detroit sometime next season.
Another young forward developed in Grand Rapids is speedy winger Landon Ferraro, promoted to Detroit for the final three regular-season games and all seven playoff games against Tampa Bay. But because he played in those 10 games the Wings were not able to send Ferraro back to Grand Rapids, as he would have to clear waivers.
And because of the way Ferraro performed on a line with Luke Glendening and Drew Miller, most of the 29 other teams would snap him up quickly off the waiver wire.
Detroit's brightest NHL prospects are on defense, where three players who spent time with the Wings this season are continuing to develop and excel in the AHL: Alexey Marchenko, Xavier Ouellet and Brian Lashoff. Another, Nick Jensen, is also developing nicely, the Wings say. Marchenko and Jensen are right shots, which improves their chances of breaking into Detroit's lineup.


One guy who looked like an NHL prospect at mid-season has been backsliding, however. Ryan Sproul, a fleet, 6-foot-3, 185-pound right-shot defenseman with a big shot from the point, was a healthy scratch in Grand Rapids' final two games against Toronto after Marchenko returned from Detroit. Sproul was Detroit's second-round pick (55th overall) in the 2011 NHL Entry Draft.
But there are still four NHL keepers on the Griffins' defense.
"They're all solid guys, and they give us some depth on defense for sure," Devellano said. "The problem is that none of them are the answer to Nicklas Lidstrom."
In fact, none of the four are projected as top-pair defensemen. Some could be 3-4 defensemen on the high side. All will be 5-6 defensemen in the NHL, Devellano said.
In other words, there are no Lidstroms or Brian Rafalskis coming.
"Where do you get that big guy, that first or second defenseman who can produce points?" Devellano asked. "That's our problem. The only place you get those guys is (high) in the draft. And simply because of where we draft we don't get those guys."
That's the down side of success, what coach Mike Babcock means when he says, "we win too much."
Meantime, coach Jeff Blashill's Griffins continue on to the Western Conference semifinals in a best-of-seven series with the Rockford IceHogs. Games 1 and 2 are Wednesday and Friday, both 7 p.m., at Van Andel Arena in Grand Rapids. It's a 2-3-2 format.
The teams finished just a point apart in the regular season. Grand Rapids won the Midwest Division title with 100 points (46-22-6-2) to Rockford's 99 (46-23-5-2).

[froot loops]

That bolded part could apply to nearly the whole current Wings defensive core as well. They have a lot of solid defenseman but no stalwarts. They all look worse because they are taking the minutes and role of a player like Lidstrom did for 20 years. He was the key, a generational player. Those aren't available very often. I'm not sure where or when you get them.

[froot loops]

John Niyo hitting the nail on the head with this article.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/columnists/john-niyo/2015/05/04/niyo-red-wings-list-goes-beyond-babcock/26906423/

The best part of the article.

"It's harder now to win the Cup for the Detroit Red Wings than it was 15 years ago when there was no salary cap and we had a bunch of superstars in their prime," Holland said. "Those days are over."

But they've been over for years now, and the days of that excuse resonating with most Red Wings fans are gone as well, I imagine. Which is why Babcock's pending free agency is only the beginning of Holland's concerns this summer. Maybe even the least of them.

Because all parties seem to agree this Red Wings team isn't good enough to win a Cup. And despite what Holland and others keep saying, it's going to take more than internal growth to change that.

It's going to take some cap creativity, and probably a bit more conviction, from the front office and ownership. The Red Wings still desperately need to add a top-four defenseman — preferably one who can man the point on the power play — by trade if not via free agency. They need another big body or two to help free up the undersized scorers they do have up front as well.

In short, they still need things they don't have, and can't seem to find on their own.

"But the days of anybody going on the free-agent market July 1st and buying this guy and that guy — those guys aren't even available anymore," Holland said. "You've got to draft, you've got to develop — that's where it starts."

That can't be where it ends, though, because there are still too many holes to plug, still some mistakes to correct.

[chemiclord]

Wasn't Lidstrom a third round pick? So there goes the idea that you can only find top flight defensmen high in the draft. Maybe it takes being willing to take chances... like I dunno putting in RFA bids and drafting Russian players again?

[froot loops]

Yeah the whole organization is too risk averse anymore in my view. They've had cap room to play with for awhile and they have a lot of young players to deal. They need to decide what young players they want to keep and peddle the other ones for NHL players.

They would probably counter that the success of the later round picks of the 80's and 90's is going to be hard to duplicate because Russia and Sweden are now heavily scouted. There is truth to that, I doubt a talent like Lidstrom is available that late now, but they really don't draft defenseman.

Whatever they decide they need to get better. I don't care what it is, just stop talking about the salary cap and how hard it is. Get something done.

[chemiclord]

It's not like Russia and Sweden weren't being combed over when the Wings plucked Datsyuk and Zetterberg out of the pile. I honestly think Holland just doesn't want to take a gamble and put the playoff streak at risk. All of his moves (or lack thereof) feel intended to preserve that streak above all else.

[Habib21]

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/05/3_red_wings_off-season_questio.html

Sounds like Weiss may be bought out. The cap implications to cut him aren't a huge detriment, so I would assume they go ahead and do it. Admit error and move on. No one is going to trade for him unless you package him up with another good player for someone who also has an inflated contract. ala Phaneuf.

I wouldn't be opposed to Phaneuf, but would rather they look elsewhere.

[Tom]

If I had to guess, they will make a stronger effort to land Phaneuf.

They might not be as bad as we feel they are. They took Tampa to seven games and now Tampa has Montreal down 2-0. It's arguable that had they had both defensemen, they could have beat Tampa.

But they do need to land a top-level defenseman to go real far in the playoffs. Mickey always says that if you look at the teams that are like dynasties, they usually have a defenseman like Lidstrom.

[jaadam4]

PONY UP AND PAY MIKE GREEN!!

He's not Lids but like froot said the other day, no one is. That's one of the best dmen to ever play the game.

[froot loops]

I think they would pay Mike Green. But would Mike Green want to play for Mike Babcock?